to not give a monkeys about the deficit?

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

I genuinely think we should ignore it.

If we don't pay it back to whoever we owe it to, would it be the end of the world?

The whole housing issue is extraordinarily complex.

When I bought my first flat, I managed to do so as a single woman, on a fairly moderate salary with a mortgage of less than 2.5x income.

Most of those flats were subsequently snapped up by private landlords, with low interest rates, silly lending policies and the lack of social housing, they were a good investment for many.

The end result, however, is that, even with a DH earning a higher than average wage, we couldn't possibly afford to buy that same flat today, if we were starting from scratch.

Benefits are not only payable to those who have never worked BeenBeta. Many people find themselves in dire circumstances through no fault of their own. It sounds so easy to say people should just move if their circumstances mean they find themselves in financial difficulty.

If my DH lost his job and we couldn't afford our mortgage whilst he was looking for work, should our only option really only be to move home? Uproot our son from his only grandparent? Remove him from his school? Would I have to switch GPs and hospitals to continue my cancer treatment? Or do we get a few months to try to get ourselves out of the shit first?

Shit happens to the best of us.

wubbly - I have been quite close to this issue for the past several years. Working closely with people in many cases on Housing Benefit, Disability Benefit and other kinds of benefits and often facing many of the kinds of issues you describe.

I dont disagree with what you say but have seen both sides of the arguement. On the one hand yes there are people who face adversity when they lose a job, illness etc. However, I do not think people should expect to be bailed out for every risk they take and if they lose their job they should be prepared to move to a cheaper place until they get a new job - lets say after 6 months which is the typical duration of a tenancy.

On the other hand I know a single man who has been on benefits almost all his life. His Housing Benefit allows him to live in really quite nice 1 bed flats in the best part of the town I live in. He has told me that he will look for a job next year some time but does not feel like it at the moment.

I dont begrudge him the benefit as he lost his job and was il for a time but I do think he should have an incentive to work or move to a cheaper place.

My sister lived in Londn for years on benefits. She had no reason to live there at all and could have lived much cheaper elsewhere. She just liked living in London.

That has to stop and a Universal Benefit woudl give people incentives to manage their money sesnibly and go to work - that is all I would like to see.

BeenBeta, not entirely sure what risk it is you're referring to?

My steroids are wearing off, so I'm prone to unreasonableness around now. I'm quite probably totally missing your point.

wubbly - I just meant the general risk of life really. Nothing specific. I just think we have a benefits system that encourages long term dependency, even traps people, rather than giving people a helping hand until they can get back on their feet. I dont begrudge anyone getting benefits. Its the mark of a civlised society. I just would like people to have a chance and an incentive to get off them once on them. I think a Universal Benefit does change the incentives and IDS is proposing it for that reason.

You are tough position now and I know how rotten cancer treatment can be - my wife had ovarian cancer and went through chemo. It turned our life upside down. Nothing was ever the same afterwards.

However, to address your question directly, we moved out of London shortly after she finished her second round of treatment. We had to. She could not work and I was in the middle of my PhD. We just could not afford to live in London. The treatment and follow up care moved with her. It was tough and we lived in a tiny house 1.5 bed with one room and a kitchen downstairs and a new baby for 3 years. We were not eligible for benefits. If we had had the universal benefit we would have been a lot better off.

Fingers crossed you are on the mend soon and wishing you well.

Soenoe needs to do the sums which apparently i got wrong on another thread. I looked at total cost of housing benefit, invalidity benefit, DLA, income support, state pensions, child benefit, etc etc etc... Then I look ed at what £200 per adult was and it seemed like the £200 oper adult was massively cheaper but I know IDS' univesral benefit apparently has a big upfront cost so may be I'm wrong or may be it was a less drastic universal benefit proposed for the poor or middle incomes only and also covered huge housing costs too,.

if they know they will get £200 per week per adult and it requires 2 adults# £400 a week to rent a place they are just going to have to force themselves to live with mother however awful she is or to stick around with their husband or find another man or lesbian partner or their sister and put up with it because beggars can't be choosers and £200 a week per adult plus you can earn what yo like on top is a very decent contrbiution from the huge numbers of us who work so hard to keep those on benefits. It would also be great for those on benefits who want to do bits of work without affecting their £200 a week.