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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to think that we NEED libraries? This is horrific.

620 replies

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 21/08/2010 14:16

Would MN like to run a campaign on this?

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/terence-blacker/terence-blacker-hands-off-our-public-libraries-2057131.html

OP posts:
ilovemydogandMrObama · 22/08/2010 10:05

Thanks for the heads up on this stuckinthemiddle If you hadn't highlighted this issue, wouldn't have known about it. And that's so worrying; that some public services would just disappear without warning [scared].

I have contacted my local councillor who will be tabling a question at the next full Council meeting.

NoahAndTheWhale · 22/08/2010 10:12

I went to the library in the city near to us with DS and DD on Friday. Has a reasonably priced cafe which is useful :)

Go to the one in our village on average about once a week I think. Would hate it if there were no libraries.

NoahAndTheWhale · 22/08/2010 10:22

Our city library is a discovery centre type one (may be called something slightly different). It has lots of books. And a cafe. And free wi-fi.

msyikes · 22/08/2010 10:33

BarmyArmy your name is very apt given your nonsensical post about working class taxpayers subsidising the intelligensia. I have never heard anything so absurd- even the most cursory look around the children's library here would show you that the heaviest users of the service are working class taxpayers.

I'll spell this out for you slowly in simple language: The point of libaries is that you use them mainly because you can't afford books.

Is the intellectual vacuum on the right due to the fact that none of you used libraries enough?

Kaloki · 22/08/2010 11:50

I was reliant on the library in my parents village when I was a child, mum couldn't have afforded as many books as I liked to read.

I miss libraries where I am now, there isn't a library here. :(

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 22/08/2010 13:59

www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/aug/18/jeanette-winterson-hits-out-threats-libraries

Jeanette Winterson (oranges are not the only fruit) speaks about this issue.

OP posts:
StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 22/08/2010 14:03

"These include selling libraries in Hereford and Shropshire to be run like volunteer charity shops. In Bradford they are looking at paying big supermarkets to set up rival facilities. The plan says "a joint approach with a retail partner has the potential to relocate libraries into stores with excess space".

www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/08/17/fears-coalition-plans-to-flog-our-libraries-115875-22492822/

Jesus Fucking Chriest.

They're giving our libraries to Tesco.

OP posts:
Kaloki · 22/08/2010 14:16

:( I have no words

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 22/08/2010 14:31

I know, it's grotesque. They're also going after our local swimming pool.

Everything I hold dear about my country is being stripped away by a bunch of poncey, spoilt rich kids (the cabinet).

OP posts:
JaneS · 22/08/2010 15:15

This is so sad.

My parents could never have afforded all the books we read when we were little (and most of those we owned are stamped 'remaindered from Hampshire County Library' Grin). Nothing beats the lovely feeling of going there, choosing seven new books, getting them home to read.

I know I sound like a fuddy-duddy, but the whole sensory experience - the smell of books, turning the pages, the shape of the type, the slightly tanned colour of old pages ... it's all important stuff. The internet is amazing, audio books are great, but they're not a match.

I work on the history of reading and I love the fact that people have been using the idea of a book for centuries. If you think about the way we talk about turning over a new leaf, the way we expect to measure the amount of a story still to come by the thickness of pages to the right, the way we remember the crease on a particular page in a favourite book: these things are all important and become ingrained.

I just can't imagine not being able to give children books and fobbing them off with the internet or DVDs.

JaneS · 22/08/2010 15:32

Oh, and ivykaty - yesterday. Am 25.

Takver · 22/08/2010 17:14

compo - its not called panicking, its called being informed, so that you have the chance to organise BEFORE the cuts are made.

Because once the decision happens, you have no chance, whereas if you get involved right at the start, and make it clear that there will be hell to pay if service X is cut, then it can (not will, but can) make a difference.

The advantage with libraries, of course is that as well as the many many poorer families who depend on them (like the kids I see in our library who don't have internet/computer at home & are there doing their homework that they are obliged to do on a computer), there are lots of very well educated and articulate people who also use and love them.

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 22/08/2010 17:20

They are already proposing trial schemes, of putting libraries in supermarkets, turning them over to volunteers and just selling them off.

I'm with takver

OP posts:
without · 22/08/2010 19:03

This is just so wrong. Librarians are highly skilled people and can't just be replaced by people interested in books.

Public libraries are an amazing institution - what next... museums, art galleries...

JumpJockey · 22/08/2010 19:19

Disclaimer; I'm an academic librarian, so hardly neutral on this subject. As a kid I spent hours in our village library to the extent that the staff got me to help issue books to younger children and to tidy the shelves at the end of the day. My Dad could never have afforded to buy the number of books me and my brother read from that place; and he still goes once a week himself.

Our local council recently spent nearly £8 million on refurbishing the city centre library. It took over 2 years (about a year longer than planned because of problems with the building) and during that time there was no service in the city centre at all. The stock and opening hours were shared around the branch libraries, which couldn't cope with the extra demand. I spent a fotune on coffees because there was nowhere to sit for free in the centre of town and breastfeed a baby; that would have been only one of the many uses I'd have had for the library. Now that it's open, I drop in at least twice a week - every time we're in the centre of town, I take dd to have a play on the story train, and to flip through some new picture books.

It is always busy - not just with people using the computers but revising, reading the papers and magazines, asking about evening classes, grabbing a quick pick, going to reading groups or rhyme time or community group meetings. Last time I was there, the staff were asking readers to fill in a survey on how often they use the library, what for etc. That's a library that's just had £8mil spent on it, having to justify its existence to the new government. One of the key questions was would you rather have a) all the branch libraries stay open, but with automatic issuing machines rather than staff, or b) fewer libraries but with trained staff in each branch. I found this very hard to answer.

It's very important to have qualified staff (MA LIS or NVQ) in libraries; not to disparage the work of volunteers, but they aren't trained in stock selection and ongoing evaluation, cataloguing, preservation, collection promotion, budget management, and any number of other behind-the-scenes tasks that have to be done to keep the service running. A library needs a manager who has these skills; perhaps one manager could be shared between several branches, but those kind of jobs can't be done by volunteers. Volunteers are brilliant for keeping buildings open, answering questions about what's on the shelves, helping with the groups mentioned above. But they can't run a library, and it's not reasonable to expect them to.

My fear is that libraries will end up being essentially big warehouses with the top 100 bestsellers on Amazon on the shelves, automatic machines to issue to readers, but nobody there to actually help people.

And breathe....!

sanielle · 22/08/2010 19:29

Library and a pint? Guess kids won't be allowed to wander down to the library by themselves anymore.

sandripples · 22/08/2010 19:42

I really love libraries and would be heart-broken if they close.

HOWEVER, the problem is funding. Local government is likely in October to be whacked by huge cuts and caps on raising tax. They can't stop providing social care (you've already got to be in fairly dire straits to get it, ecp older people) - they can't cut schools much, so they will be obliged to look at other services such as libraries and leisure centres and roads.

So be prepared to lobby to avoid caps on local taxation or to volunteer to staff libraries. That's very likely to be the choice as far as I can see. I am not saying I agree with this - but can't see other alternatives.

The visitor numbers ARE falling and people do usually prefer the internet to reference books now - which is why many libraries provide pcs and support in using them.

wouldliketoknow · 22/08/2010 20:00

if you tried to close my library i would lock myself and ds inside claiming it is rhymetime...

who voted for tories? who though lib dem wouldn't just hand power to the tories?

stegasaurus · 22/08/2010 20:25

I think I'm going to join my library now, as you can apparently join online, and start going if it will help save libraries. I will be devastated if they close the libraries. I haven't been for a couple of years, but was considering rejoining. I can afford to buy books but they are getting more and more expensive and I can't afford as many as I want.
As a child I loved the library. When I was at primary school I used to walk to the one in the village and get out as many books as I could. When I was in secondary school my mum often couldn't pick me up til a hour or so after school finished so I would go to the public library in town and do my homework/ look at books. When DH and I were both unemployed after uni we couldn't afford to do anything or buy books, and we solved both problems by going to the library. It was a free day/ few hours out of the house and we got piles of books to give us something to do for the rest of the week. Surely now there are more and more unemployed people who would benefit from the library as somewhere free to go with free books, computers, local newspapers and other resources that could help them find a job as well as interesting books to pass the time.

compo · 22/08/2010 20:31

Totally agree with sandripples

cuts are already being made, have been made to staff over the last few years

I'm not burying my head in the sand

but we do not know yet the extent of the cuts and emailing your mp saying you love libraries I personally don't think will help just YET

love it though that one poster is going to rejoin their local library on the back if this thread

As someone else said use it or lose it

SpringHeeledJack · 22/08/2010 20:33

how about spreading the word just in case- Use It Or Lose It?

we've got a community notice board on the green- will get dcs to do a poster if I remember Blush

maybe a good idea to put it about a bit when the schools go back too?

wouldliketoknow · 22/08/2010 20:33

it is a great place to meet other mums with small babies, especially if there is no baby groups in your area, or groups only for breastfeeding mums. they also have movies, so if you can't afford sky or go to the cinema, you can still watch a movie, there's newspapers, local history, they are the only access to internet for many people, specially in towns where there is no internet cafes, like mine, they do photocopying, life saver if you don't have a computer at home... there is so many uses for the libraries, never mind the jobs that would go, several librarians, cleaners, storytellers,...

come on, mn, save our libraries!
i want to support that campaign. how do we get this started?

boiledegg1 · 22/08/2010 20:47

This is profoundly depressing as I love and use our library every week and I would hate to see it go, but there are alternatives that can work that cost less to maintain, for example the village library where I used to live.

It is run by volunteers and has been for at least three years. There is one qualified librarian that is a paid member of staff who runs it and she is there several days a week and to cover sickness absence. The library receives a rotation of books and CDs from the central library in the city each week to keep the stock rotated and the rest of the book collection has been donated by local people. It is also possible to order books online from anywhere in the county library system for collection for one pound per book. There are three computer terminals with free (albeit slow) internet access and information on evening classes and local activities. It works really well. The building used is also the library of the local school so the overheads are low as well. The downside is that it is only open evenings and Saturday mornings.

It isn't perfect but is a reasonable compromise to save money and definitely better than getting the likes of tesco involved.

happilyeverafter · 22/08/2010 21:09

This is outrageous.

Fecking hate the condems.

We visit ours every friday, dd did spacehop,christmas/easter craft sessions and anything else they offer. It's FREE, local and they love kids. DD adores both our librarians as they encourage her to ask questions and 'do good voices'

We all get a couple of books per week, would cost a fortune buying them.

Nomorerain · 22/08/2010 21:42

Who got our country into this friggin financial mess in the first place that they're having to resort to making cuts like this?? The previous Government and the bloody greedy banks are to blame Angry

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