to think that we NEED libraries? This is horrific.

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

Would MN like to run a campaign on this?

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/terence-blacker/terence-blacker-hands-off-our-public-libraries-2057131.html

bees, err no.

I just think that when we know so many cuts are going to be made, libraries are nowhere nere the top of my list of things to keep. The NHS and education are the only things that I think are important enough to be given a high level of funding.

I know libraries are important to lots of people, but I don't think they are essential to enough people to warrant the amount of money they cost to run. I really don't see whats so bad about making the people that want to use them pay a small amount to do so. I'd much rather have free prescriptions than free books if things are going to be provided for free, and tbh I don't see how anyone can say that books and internet access is more important than health.

The Government subsidises or makes free leisure activities that it thinks it should encourage. This includes children's playgrounds, leisure centres, community centres and activities for older people such as lunch clubs.

For me the first question is whether taxpayers money should be used for this kind of activity - and I think the answer is yes. The second question is then what are the most important things that the government should be encouraging?

For those who think the Government shouldn't spend money on libraries, do you also think the government shouldn't pay for children's playgrounds? After all this is more important than heal or education?

The government didnt pay for our playground...it was community and lottery grant funded.

I bet they maintain it though and provided the land for free.

No they dont maintain it. Not sure who owns the land though.

Our playground is also on private land, and community- and lottery-grant-funded. And this is a small village--200 people.

All maintenance is carried out by volunteers. This is a bit of an aside from the libraries issue, but it is NOT always necessary for government--central or local, to provide and maintain local services.

Public libraries are different, though.

Whoopsdidn't mean strike-outs to be there! Please disregardI meant what I said.

I love the hysterical responses on here - so over the top and hyperbolic as to render the argument quite ineffective.

If people value books, knowledge, learning so much they should reflect this in their weekly budgeting, not expect others to pick up the tab.

The argument that ?we all benefit? from being a more widely-read ?community? is specious since there is no data available to indicate the take-up of library services, nor of the breakdown of library-goers. We would all benefit from us all having full and active sex lives but this is not an argument for subsidising massage parlours and strip clubs?

"We would all benefit from us all having full and active sex lives but this is not an argument for subsidising massage parlours and strip clubs?"

And that's not even plausible-looking enough to be specious!

What impact does my sex life have on the common good? (Answer: none)

Whereas democracy relies on a well-educated, well-informed citizenry.

Coleysworth - and free library access has patently failed to produce a well-educated, well-informed citizenry, judging by the poor spelling and grammar, shocking ignorance and general lowest-common-denominator name-calling that passes for 'debate' on here!

Do you think that closing public libraries will help to remedy that problem?

No, it won't but to be clear, I am arguing for libraries to be privatised and entrance charges to be introduced. Maybe a lower rate (or free entry) might be permitted for OAPs/unemployed etc.

But essentially, I don't see it as the role of government (local or national) to provide books for anyone.

If you want to be well-read, go and buy a book. If you don't, dont.

Bad luck on children from families where buying a book is never going to happen, then. I have taken children from poor families to libraries, with the school, and they would never access to those titles otherwise. Their parents aren't going to be popping into Waterstones and some schools don't have adequate libraries, either.

It's not just children either. I met a Kurdish woman at a library talk I gave. She had come here speaking no English and had used the library to teach herself, eventually ending up in a good job. In areas of high immigrant density it's vital to have English reading materials available to encourage people to learn English and about the British culture.

Lots of Tories, like me, and like my more right-wing parents feel strongly about this, too. Libraries tick a lot of traditional tory value boxes: self-improvement, self-betterment, and so on.

Abr1de - ah, I see, so the "man in Whitehall" knows better than parents what is best for their children, does he? How very patronising.

Yes, some parents will not buy books and will prefer different approaches (including ignoring their child's development altogether). But 'twas ever thus and I fail to see how, apart from compulsory reading classes, one can address that.

Besides, those that attend libraries now will also be the ones that will pay to maintain the service - those that don't already attend will be unaffected.

If something is important to you, you will make sacrifices (leisure, hobbies, luxuries etc) for its sake.

another problem with libraries being privatised or semi privatised would be censorship

also Pascoe some parents do not know what is best for the child I think that is quite established, not the majority of course but a few could not care less, in which case we have a duty of care

KerryMumbles - the choice, when made as stark as that, is simple...buy your kids a meal.

Some other choices -

a. buy a packet of cigarettes/bottle of wine.
b. buy my kids a book.

hmmmmmmm

c. buy a DVD/computer game.
d. buy my kids a book.

hmmmmmmm

e. buy myself some make-up.
f. buy my kids a book.

hmmmmmmm

sfxmum - we already have the 'problem of censorship' in that certain books/materials cannot be borrowed/used in public libraries - porn, for example.

As for parents not knowing best for their children, who did you have in mind?

I know books are good and I love to own books. however I cannot afford to buy books any more. The same as Kerry, to buy a book I would have to skip buying food, or perhaps not pay my council tax or not pay my energy bills I am sure most of you would agree that these are not really options.

I am luck to have internet access at my mum's there are others in the same financial situation as me without family to give them internet access. I know of people who use the library in order to have e-mail and to apply for jobs on-line. There are no internet cafes in my area. The nearest is between 30 and 40 miles away.

Abr1de, regarding your point about libraries ticking a lot of tory value boxes, I found it interesting that when this issue was debated on Newsnight last year John Redwood was staunchly defending libraries (although he was suggesting that services could be consolidated to save money) whereas the lib dem representative (whose name I forget) was taking pascoe's line (i.e. "get rid of 'em: they're not essential"). I hope tory paternalism wins the day on this issue.

The parents that don't know what's best for their children are not going to be the parents that go to the library.

The parents that do want to make the effort to read to their children will find a way. Charity shops for example, you can pick up fantastic books from 20p each. One of those every week or two is hardly going to mean said child goes without being fed.

Pre schools could be encouraged to lend out books, ours does it. Then children will have acces to school libraries. They could be improved with the stock that comes from all the shut down libraries.

Also, children before school age don't have to learn early reading skills from books alone. Words are everywhere, a poor but determined parent will make the effort to use them.

Internet acces for jobs could be provided at job centers that people have to go to anyway to get their JSA.

ethstarkaddersmum Sat 21-Aug-10 19:56:14
no library in our town at the moment.
the mobile library visits twice a week but it's during school hours so kids can't go.
There is also no library at the local comprehensive.

I know this was a while ago, but it must be wrong? a school without a library???
I feel a bit sick tbh, no wonder education standards are dropping so dramatically.