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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to hate this "toughen up" etc mentality towards boys?

53 replies

DetectivePotato · 20/08/2010 10:02

Luckily I don't know that many people who are like it but there are 2 mums in particular who have this attitude towards their DS's.

I have heard one of them (a friend of mine) say to her DS (2.4) on several occasions "oh xxx toughen up" and "man up" when he gets a bit 'wingey' etc. He is a bit clingy and cries over every tiny knock but my friend doesn't help this as if he does something minor, she rushes over and hugs him, picks him up etc when he is fine really. But then she tells him he needs to toughen up. We were all at a party (childs) recently and this boys dad took a toy tiara off his DS and said "you are not playing with that" as is he had done something really wrong. Another friends DH commented on the fact that my DS was pushing a pushchair around. At first I was really confused as to why he was referring to this, then I realised it was because he is a boy with a pushchair.

Another mum is always calling her DS (nearly 3)a wimp and to look at so and so and see that he isn't being a wimp etc.

I hate this. It makes me feel really bad for the child to be told they are wimps etc. I remember being called a wimp by my grandad and dad and it was awful. I just felt so inadequate.

OP posts:

BarmyArmy · 20/08/2010 11:39

FWIW, I think there is some validity in the expectation for men to maintain a 'stiff upper lip' etc etc - my personal view, based on a career in the Army and having heard many female responses to men who are a bit 'wimpish'.

But I think it's up to men to decide for themselves where they wish to sit on the spectrum between 'emotional silence' on the one hand and 'emotional incontinence' on the other...not for them to be shoe-horned into where their parents would prefer them to be.

fabsoopergroovy · 20/08/2010 11:44

Don't you think it's interesting that this does not really happen to girls?

It's that patriarchal society in which we all live - again!

fabsoopergroovy · 20/08/2010 11:45

PS DetectivePotato - YANBU at all!

BeenBeta · 20/08/2010 12:05

lolapoppins - interesting the boys not wanting to play with girls thing. Both our DSs do that 'yuck girls' thing when other boys around but if we have girl vistors to our house they really like playing with them.

They seem to have developed a bit of an aversion generally more to girls who are pink fairy princess but clearly express a like (when other boys cannot hear) for girls who like doing interesting stuff and not just talking about 'girly stuff'.

None of this attitude to girls comes from home but they pick it up in the playground. As they get older boys and girls seem to become very aware of social attiudes to he roles and expected behaviours of the two sexes and it is fully fledged and engrained by age 8.

Girls seem to do it as well as boys and tend to push our boys away if other girls are around. Indeed, I heard an older sister (age 16) tell her younger sister (age 6) that boys are 'yucky and smelly and rough and silly and you don want to play with them'. One mother I know is also very openly vocal about not liking boys anywhere near her 7 and 10 yr old DDs. I find that rather sad as I know DS1 is very friendy with the older DD at school. Maybe it is older siblings/parents that help produce these attitudes.

Me and DW genty try and callenge our DSs 'yuck girls' attitude but I guess that will change anyway by age 14.

lolapoppins · 20/08/2010 12:32

Beenbeta- ds is home educated, so while he does lots of home ed activities with other home ed kids, there doesn't seem to be the divide that there is between boys and girls like there is in schools, a lot of people comment on it. I think if he was in school he would have either done the whole yuk girls thing (although, from the person he is I don't know if he would have done) or he would have had a very tough time with the other boys if he was how he is now.

All the other after school type things he goes to are mostly dance/drama so it's girls or boys who are a lot like my ds. The only ribbing he gets is from boys at a Saturday club he goes to.

AlgebraRocksMySocks · 20/08/2010 13:11

I'm really glad that my DH is very affectionate (despite a terribly abusive childhood). he's such a great dad, it makes my heart melt seeing him cuddle our kids (and do rough and tumble with them - often at the same time!). his 18yo DS is much like him I think. he's always been quite sensitive and is a great big brother. he's so unlike most teenage boys (IMO) but in a really good way. he's very into 'guy stuff' but he's also very popular with the girls, he's very respectful of them although the only possible problem is that he can be a bit too loved up when he has a girlfriend.

I don't think I could ever love a 'macho' man. I'm not sure I could even like one as a friend TBH! I'm thinking through all the guys I know and I'm not sure I know any macho ones at all! some are more 'soft' than others but I wouldn't describe any as wimpy.

I guess it's to do with how my dad is - he's not macho either, generally my whole family places no value on the tough personality, we're all very cuddly people. I'm sure I was much better off having a dad who was affectionate, not just with me but also being able to see my parents hug and hold hands - it showed me what a loving relationship looked like. and now, he's a fantastic grandad too :)

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:16

I think some of it stems from the horror of the idea that they might "turn gay"

I can't decide which is worse, the pig ignorance about sexual identity or the assumption that being gay is the end of the world

I just don't put myself in the company of people like that if I can help it. They give me a headache.

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:17

oh and my dh is the biggest dofty in the world with out boys, he is always cuddling them and calling them sweetheart and poppet

the is nothing incongruous or unmanly about his nurturing them and enjoying their childhood

poor little boys who don't get enough of it because their parents are weird about gender

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:18

softy not dofty

actually I think dofty would be a nice nickname for him - sort of a cross between doofus and softy

I will stop volley posting now

kingfix · 20/08/2010 13:24

hear hear greensleeves
(I mean about toys don't make you gay and anyway being gay is fine, more than that you should call your dh dofty, although of course you can if you like)

xkaylax · 20/08/2010 13:28

YANBU this attitude is horrible at the end of the day they are children, toddlers in fact.
I for one am always cuddling my ds and would never tell him to 'man up' he is 3 btw, he loves teddys etc and I would never take them away from him.
I wish some people would just let children be children, They grow up quick enough without all of this.

Careful · 20/08/2010 13:41

My not-so-lovely BIL shouted at DN and told him 'not to be so gay' because he was upset and had asked his mum for a cuddle. DN is only 6 FGS.

Horrible. Just horrible.

BeenBeta · 20/08/2010 15:47

lolapoppins - really interesting to hear about your DS and the way home ed has maybe moulded his attitude. Also about the way he gets pushed about by other boys.

Our DSs have both been at what are predominantly girls scools from age 5 and now spend most of their day with girls and just a few boys at school. About 80:20 girl:boy ratio. Just acient not a specific choice on our part. The problem arises (especially with DS1) that once they come in contact with boys who are used to being in a more boy heavy environment such as holiday clubs.

DS1 gets very stressed and unhappy when he goes on cricket/rugby trips with other boys because of the way they behave. Some pretty choice language, lewd behaviour and comments about girls, etc. Lots of 'you are gay' references too if a boy does anything perceived to be 'girly'.

BeenBeta · 20/08/2010 15:47

Just accident not a specific choice on our part.

lolapoppins · 20/08/2010 16:53

I hate that some thugs are percieved as girly and that a boy 'might turn gay'. Ffs. How rediculous can anyone be? Agree with Greensleves, it's horrible to think that some people have the attitude that if thier son was gay it would be the end of the world. I couldn't give a monkeys which gender ds chooses to sleep with when he's older, it's none of bloody business in the first place.

I would no more expect him to walk into the living room at 18 to tell us he was gay than I would for him to tell us he was straight. Would honestly make no difference to me or dh at all. (like my friend who was stressing about telling his mum he was gay, he spent months agonising over it only to be met with "of course you are love, I've known since you were 13, are you staying for dinner?")

Ds does ballet, and recently did a competition. There were some dads of girls there, I could hear them
behind me whispering how terrible it was to see little boys dancing with the girls on stage, how they would be gay when they grew up and would be effeminate. They soon shut up when some adult male ballet dancers turned up, fantastically toned, musular, very fit looking men who thier wives were swooning over!

Also, there are a couple of teenage lads at ds theatre school (about 16 or 17 years old) who do ballet and use the fact that most of the other girls dads think they are gay to thier full advantage!

lolapoppins · 20/08/2010 16:54

Things, not thugs.

narkypuffin · 20/08/2010 16:57

It's gender stereotyping. Women can be just as guilty of it as men. There have been experiments done showing people's behaviour/interaction with babies changes due to perceived gender- if the babies were dressed in pink or blue.

Meglet · 20/08/2010 17:02

yanbu. I seem to have gone the other way and DS is a big softy whilst DD is the most gung-ho little girl I know .

ihearthuckabees DD rarely wears skirts for that reason. She's bound to fall over and gash her knees so it's jeans & dungarees all the way with her.

DS was being a doctor this morning and looking after his toys .

Original poster

DetectivePotato · 20/08/2010 19:31

Careful that is awful and makes me really . What a horrible thing to say.

lola your DS seems to have a very sensible head on when it comes to girls and who he may like, getting her friends to put in a good word etc.

I don't like macho men either. Never have. I don't come from a particularly affectionate family (actually thats putting it mildly) but I am determined to be the opposite with my DS and future DC.

OP posts:

AlgebraRocksMySocks · 20/08/2010 19:41

I have to say, it's been so great to read this thread. it's lovely that so many agree with DetectivePotato (BTW in my head I actually have to say your name in the funny accent like on the show!) - it's refreshing to have a thread about helping boys grow up nicely, in contrast to the many threads about 'let girls be girls' etc (which I do also agree with, FWIW)

I'm currently reading Toxic Childhood by Sue Palmer, she's written something about raising boys too - I daresay this is a key issue of the book?

mumbar · 20/08/2010 19:45

YADNBU

DS 6 always asks when we're meeting new people if they are girls or boys and if the boys are 'big' as he doesn't like rough play. Well he does but wrestling etc is not his idea of fun.

He has just got rid of his baby pushchair (not the baby) to make room for his lego

Original poster

DetectivePotato · 20/08/2010 19:49

Luckily I think there are more people letting their boys be who they are, well most of the people I know anyway, apart from the few mentioned above.

Obviously there are some who could do with a bit of attitude change but its nice to see its not necessary on here.

OP posts:

blueshoes · 20/08/2010 19:54

'Macho' is just another name for sexist pig. I too could not stomach a man who expected his young son to 'toughen' up. Why some women put up with such stereotypical and unenlightened men is beyond me.

Original poster

DetectivePotato · 20/08/2010 19:56

I agree blueshoes but its my female friend who keeps telling her DS to toughen up, then she doesn't like it as her DH doesn't want their DS to have a teaset in his playhouse in the garden.

OP posts:

EdgarAllenPop · 20/08/2010 20:02

YANBU - my dad was like this - lovely to big sister & self, nice to physically gifted (good at sport) younger brother, crap to other brother (who was a skittish, thin and clumsy boy)

they get on alright now, but the resentment is still there from my brother.

Dh is a bit like this too - though i tell him off - DS is just a baby! he's going to cry when he falls over. To a much lesser extent as my Dad though. it is a marked double standard from his ()more indulgent)treatment of DD.

i think it is a male fear thing - they fear their boys will shame them, and reflect negatively on their own masculinity. The 'toughen up' attitude reflects personal insecurities.

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