to worry about what kind of a horrible world i have brought kids into?

[superv1xen]

the average person can no longer afford to buy houses, rents going up all the time (on the news last night it said it average rents had gone up by 10% just in the last year), and wages are so shit they have to be topped up with benefits.

if its this bad now whats it going to be like in 15-20 years when my kids are leaving home and looking for jobs and needing a place to live.

i dont own my own home, and never will be able to afford to. so i will have nothing to leave to them house-wise. and i won't be able to help them out financially to get on the property ladder as i am just mrs average and will never be able to earn enough to save to do that.

this country is shit and i hate it.

there are always prospects, we make our future (health allowing always)! 20k is very good in my books, especially as one of two incomes.

Have a look at what help there is for adult students. My BIL just finished his 5 year MD course, he has two children and his wife HEs, so can't work (I think she does some envelop stuffing at home 5 or 6 hours a week). It's wasn't easy financially but they made it and now as a junior dr he'll start getting paid and things will be easier.

They may not be in the best schools but:

• There's free education in this country AND
• A lot of the influence on a child's education comes from the parents, so reading with them, supporting them, having a home environment where learning and curiosity are encouraged.

I feel for you superv1xen.

Bear in mind that any kind of education/training that you do will take a while to pay off. It might seem that you will be worse off for a while but then hopefully you will have a long working life ahead to reap the rewards. Not to mention a possible pension at the end of it, and being a role model to your kids. Not that it's easy.

Also it could be a way to get your kids into an area with decent schools. It could be worth getting into fairly rubbishy private housing to get them into a good school - then you can move/upgrade.

Alternatively as others said you can devote your time to giving your kids as much support/encouragement/education as you can at home. And the might be eligible for all kinds of bursaries etc later on.

Good luck.

does make me when people start ops like this one and everyone piles in with 'oooh try living in a third world country' and the like.

i agree with op - the future does look bleak for the majority imo. i think it's perfectly reasonable and understandable to have this view at this time.

i think most people do think like this at some point though. you just have to be optomistic or take up armed robbery

See...I don't even think retraining is worth it. I just spent two years busting my behind to go back to uni to get a Master's degree. Turns out, it was a complete waste of time. I get no credit from employers for my degree, or the 12 years of work experience I had prior to the MA, my salary starts at rock bottom, and most of the time, a degree isn't even required in my profession, which is crap.

So, though I have always been an advocate for education bettering someone's situation, and I am very glad that my kids witnessed my going back to uni, the payoff is quite frankly, shit.

Stop watching the news. Most journalists make their living from writing hysterical news about the "problems" of the modern world.

Owning a house is not a prerequisite for happiness. It's only in recent years (since Thatcher) that people have considered it so.

Chill out, put some music on the radio and have a dance about your living room. Relaxed and Alert is the best state to be in if you are having a rethink. Panicked and negative just isn't going to do it. I know this sounds a bit patronising but I'm probably more saying it to myself than you as am going through the same thing (we don't own either).

PS Maybe we should all have a bit more confidence in our children's ability to improve things and make their own lives worth it. I bet every generation has said similar things. Look at those born just after world war 2, there wasn't much for them then...things got turned around.. (and then debtably they fucked it up again for the rest of us )

I also think it is one thing for us privately to have anxieties for our childrens future, it is another entirely to allow them to grow in an atmosphere of negativity and hopelessness.

You have to find the things in life that you value and give that as your gift to your children.
When we were struggling we worked hard to create a sense of family as a place of warmth, strength and comfort. That was just by haing evenings where we ate together and talked about what our dreams and plans were, talked about things we enjoyed - films and books. We read together ( I know that sounds a bit Waltons like but we did - just reading Harry Potter to the kids etc) and played games.

Eevn if privately it felt black we tried to look atthings we could do now that made us feel happier and tried to talk about how to move forward, how to make things better next year.
Sometimes the things that make you happy are surprising and if you allow yourself to endlessly focus on how shit is is it becomes hopeless and self fullfilling.
The worst thing we can do for our kids is make them feel like it is hopeless.

REad a bit of medieval history and you'll get some perspective.

Our children are very unlikely:
to die of starvation
be killed by roaming bands of outlaws in the forest
work 12 hours a day doing the harvest
live in filth
be forced to work 40 days a year free for the lord of the manor
be conscripted to fight abroad in an army with no food or sanitation
die of blood poisonging after getting a small cut as there is no hygeine or antiseptic
get leprosy
get the black death

...they had it worse.

I still think we should fight for a better world for our children however, but I am so glad I live here and now, and not then!

pagwatch speaks a lot of sense. Passing on the feeling that life is hopeless is likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why not have a think about all the great things your kids might do? I know you say they will be at bad schools etc. but it doesn't mean they will amount to nothing. Dream a little, there is the potential that they might invent something amazing, or that they might discover the cure for cancer, or be amazing entrepreneurs, or anything really. I know on a day to day basis you feel like this seems unlikely, but having hopes and dreams is good, however unrealistic they may seem, it makes us see beyond the house/street we live in. And if they do none of those things, but have a loving family, friends, their health, food in their bellies and a roof over their heads (rented, shared, owned or otherwise), then the rest is not worth worrying about.

FWIW, I don't think the country is just on a downward path and will never get any better. There are always tougher times when things look bleak, and easier times when life seems full of opportunity. 15-20 years from now your concerns may seem completely unnecessary.

D

Superv1xen, I know it's probably not very helpful when people are telling you to be glad you're not in the third world (or dying of the Black Death), meanwhile you feel trapped and your kids are facing shitty schools.

One thing that occurred to me is that if you stay where you are it's worth looking for things that your kids can get involved in which take them out of their immediate peergroup/environment. a friend of mine had the roughest background imaginable but he got heavily into drama as an adolescent/young adult. He ended up highly educated (mostly as an adult) with a successful career and family life (and he does own his own home). It wasn't that he became a professional actor - he didn't, but it opened up a whole world and gave him confidence.

If the future looks bleak what are you doing to improve it for your kids? Society is made up of individuals. It is a democratic country with freedom of speech.

If the Tories are so awful, where are the protesters? Where are the vocal opponents? Where are the people?

You don't have to quietly accept that the "country is shit" you know.

I think people have been thinking this way since the beginning of time. But actually it has always been hard to make your way in the world.When I left school there was 3m unemployed and I applied for 250 jobs before I got one. My financial situation now bares no comparison to the one I was in when my first DD was born 24 years ago.

There is every possibility that things will have improved by the time they leave school.
They may be very successful in their chosen career, and will probably have much more than you have ever had. Every generation has more than the last.

I would be sure to instill a can do attitude in them and tell them they can achieve anything they want to.

ragged dd2 was born the day beofre 9/11. I only vaguely remember it but watching tv for the first weeks with a newborn & seeing it over and over again was awful

supervixen, you may live in shitty area but you have a huge influence on your children until they leave home.

my best friend was brought up with 2 siblings by a single parent on a really awful estate. she is teh first to admit her mum was very strict and thee were times when she wanted to play out like all the otehr children but she is so grateful now that her mum was tough and din't let them get wrapped up in all the drugs and crime taht was going on. her and her husband now have a lovely home in a great village and steady jobs. none of her siblings or her ever got into trouble with the police even though they all went to the same school as all their neighbours.

i agree it will be tough to keep them from it if it is all around them but you must not underestimate the good role model you can be for your dc. it is your responsibility to guide them, don't let the kids that are causing trouble be their role models.

Research showing importance on adolescent's high school achievement.

"Parent Expectations -> Achievement

The further in school parents believed their adolescents would go, the higher the adolescents' academic achievement.

Parent Expectations -> Perception of Parent Expectations -> Student Expectations Achievement

The further in school parents believed their adolescents would go, the clearer the adolescents' perception of such expectations, the higher their own academic expectations, the higher their academic achievement.

Parent Expectations -> Perception of Parent Expectations -> Time Spent on Homework Achievement

The further in school parents believed their adolescents would go, the clearer the adolescents' perception of such expectations, the more time they spent on homework, the higher their academic achievement.

In agreement with findings from other studies (Catsambis, 2001), high educational expectations constitute a powerful way through which parents can encourage continuously the educational attainments of their adolescents in high school and beyond."

So, parents still have a huge influence, even in teenaged years when peer-pressure and peer influence increases substantially. And this is just one area of a person's life. Imagine the influence you could have over your child in terms of personal relationships, having confidence in themselves etc. etc.

Yes, you may not live in the best area, your children may not be in the best schools and there may be lots of dangers around them, but you are very much a deciding factor for the good. Remember that

And ... even if a parent isn't bothered (not that I'm saying you fall into this category), there are some people who will just always rise above their circumstances and get out.

There was someone I went to six form with, who came from a terrible background, very deprived AND, when he studied and tried to work hard his father said to him "why bother? It's not going to get you anywhere". He (thankfully) ignored that - came out with some of the highest A Level results at my college, got into one of the most elite and tough colleges at Cambridge, and went on to become a doctor. Some people are just like that.

agree with posters that say YOU need to make the positive changes that your children need, you can't sit around blaming the government if your dc aren't high flyers (and btw, not all of us can be high flyers, but we can all be good at what we do and that is what your children should be aiming for)

you say you don't work, some posters have suggested HE (home educating). there are quite a few home educaters on here so it wuld be a great place to start finding out how to go about it. it would mean you had a far greater influence over your children's education and their peer group.

Vixen, you are fast forwarding to 15 years ahead and saying how's it going to be when they are leaving home???

For a start you could take the time to get a better job, perhaps start your own business and you could transform your own family's future.

By adopting the doom and gloom, you are not only writing off your own DC, you are writing yourself off too!

I recall growing up in the 70s, we didn't always have the money for the milk etc. Sure there were a ton of my school friends even harder up than us, but there were many much better off too.

My dad started his own business and we struggled for a few years, but by the time we were set to go to Secondary School, we'd moved house, to a much bigger house, had a lovely comfortable country childhood.

Times may be tough now, but try to find a solution rather than give up.

I've lived in a poor and supposedly developing nation, and there they really don't have a chance at all of ever bettering themselves. The citizens have not not only given up, but they have been denied of any useful education/exposure to the 1st world to keep them 'stupid' and oppressed. It suits the Govt that way. Even with an education they are pretty much condemned to poverty. Especially if they are female.

This is actually potentially a good time to bring children into the world. A time where they have to work hard and be clever and ingenious to get on and make something of themselves. Many of the yoof of today have grown up learning that all they have to do to get money is to take out a flaming loan.... and if it all goes tits up, they take out an IVA or go bankrupt....

The next generation, our children, will know that they have to roll up their sleeves and earn it... just as we did!

I thought from the title it was going to be all about environmental change, problems with housing and feeding the world's population etc
not house prices!

(I can't think of anything to say).

How about grabbing a pen and paper and making a list of all the things you'd like for your dc's future assuming money was no object ...

At first you may think of things like a big house with a big garden etc, yep I'd love that too, but then if you're like me you'll realise that actually most of the things you'd want don't cost money. I'd like for my ds to grow up happy and healthy, to be respectful, to be motivated and to be financially savvy (not necessarily rich).

Once you have the list then repeat the process doing a list for your own future, and finally think about how you can achieve these things. Perhaps doing some voluntary work with them when they're a bit older? Reading back this probably sounds really pompous but I don't mean it to at all, another idea is go to the library and get an autobiography of someone whos come from humble beginnings and done well, eg. duncan bannatyne, alan sugar etc, and see if that helps inspire you? Good luck x

Whatever situation you and your kids are in, there is always someone worse off, and things to be grateful for, but that doesn't mean that you can't be worried for your kids future and wish that things could be improved. You aren't alone. Have you got some good likeminded friends near where you live, in the same position, with kids going to the shit schools? Don't forget your kids will still get a good education if they are supported and encouraged at home and will learn a lot that could motivate them to do well and change things for themselves when they are older! Try not to worry too much about things that you have no control over, concentrate on good solid communication and support for your kids and they will have a good grounding to cope with whatever life brings them, because they will have you on their side!x

benben that is a great idea.

i have often heard friends and family saying "if only i won the lottery" but when i ask them what they would spend it on, after the usual, buy a nice house and car, holidays etc they really have no clue. a nice house and car are great but happiness is in your head.

i am happy when i am busy, with a task to complete because i know the finished result will be a satisfying pay off for putting effort in. i know if i didn't have anything to do i would become depressed (past experience has told me this). i reckon most people are happier when they have a purpose or a goal. working to improve your future or your children's future is a great goal. the only thing is, finding something else to work towards once you are financially secure and your dc are left home. boredom is a terrible fate.

My view would be that you have two children who are guaranteed of your love. You live in a country where there are no food shortages or plagues and where education (at least the first bits) are available free.

You can bring your children up to be decent educated human beings whether or not you own your own home or have a job. Yes, it takes effort but so does anything worthwhile.

Teach them to always be absolutely the best that they can be, and no-one can ask any more than that. And if they stick to that, you'll probably find they will do just fine. By that time, it will be up to them, and you should be putting your feet up.

sorry i haven't been back to this thread, thanks for the replies, i guess i was just feeling particularly down about things when i first wrote it.

i particularly liked your reply kathyjelly and will deinitely keep it in mind.

feeling a bit more positive now!