to argue with London Midland over £3.20?

[PrivetDancer]

I know it's only £3.20 but it's the principle goddammit!

I booked some tickets online the other day to go into London with DD on a London Midland train.

They have a half price off-peak offer on at the moment.
So I was booking the tickets and clicked 1 adult and 1 child thinking I'd look up how old a 'child' is later, DD is only 23 months. Price came up as £9.65, I thought bargain, that's half the price it costs me to get in for work, so bought it thinking that was just an adult ticket and DD was going free.
Only when I got the email receipt did it show that I'd bought a child ticket for £3.20, adult for £6.45. My fault entirely for not checking before booking but I thought well I'll just ring up and cancel the transaction and do it again.

Not so! London Midland charge £10 admin fee for any cancellation so it's not worth it.

BUT nowhere on the site is this admin fee specified. If you click on the Terms & Conditions just before you book it says "Refunds: Normal refund rules apply as per the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. If you need to apply for a refund please log on to your London Midland account and complete the relevant form"

I have asked customer services to send me the National Rail Conditions of Carriage and all they say regarding refunds is :
In the case of a refund [under certain conditions] you may have to pay a reasonable administrative charge (not exceeding £10)

Surely this implies that where the admin fee is applicable it should show you in the T&Cs for your specific ticket before booking? Also the fact that the conditions say you can just apply for a refund online implies that it is straightforward (as it should be for an online transaction) and free (as no charge is mentioned). The refund link is actually greyed out and not available.
And on what planet is a £10 fee a reasonable one for a simple web transaction? The tickets were to be picked up at the station so there is no postage involved.

All London Midland customer services keep saying to me is that the £10 admin fee applies and that's that, even though they can't show me where it says anywhere on their site that this is the case.

So, am I being unreasonable in arguing with them about it or should I just give up?

Yeah, but narky. You are clearly narked.

You bought an unnecessary ticket, I've just looked at the site and it couldn't be clearer that you are buying one adult and one child ticket, on the review page its written on 3 seperate places and 2 icons as well!

Your thing about t&c's for refunds is a different matter. Its also clearly stated on the website about refunds, right next to the question on what age a child needs a ticket from!
...
"The amount of refund that you are due will depend on the ticket purchased and the terms and conditions of that ticket. This information is available in ?My Account? under ?Check your order status?.

Please note that you cannot get refunds on some tickets, such as Advance fares. An administration fee is also payable for all refunds and amendments to tickets"

I'm getting narked now, for sure.

I've already said multiple times that it was my fault for buying the wrong thing in the first place.

Regardless of the details of my particular case, even what you have found still doesn't say it's £10 or what tickets it applies to.

All it says from T&Cs that you agree to on the booking page (ie for that particular ticket):
"Refunds: Normal refund rules apply as per the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. If you need to apply for a refund please log on to your London Midland account and complete the relevant form."

You cannot however actually apply online for a refund in that way. And there were no details pertaining to refunds in 'Check your Order Status', just a greyed out link for Refunds that could not be clicked on.

Because, as the Terms and Conditions say, not all tickets can be refunded. If you can't click on refunds for that ticket, it is because that is the type of ticket that can't be refunded.

You asked AIBU, and as you can see, the consensus is YABU. You don't have any basis for arguing with the company.

Thanks for useful feedback - I'll see what improvements I can make.

The details of the tickets you have selected are shown on the first and second screens, but admittedly, on the payment screen, you are just given the total price. Unfortunately, the system doesn't allow us to show the passenger 'breakdown' beyond that point, but I will see if it is possible (these changes affect the software itself which is shared by several train companies).

Clicking on the FAQ section gives several responses about refunds and admin charges, but I will make it clearer exactly what the refund charge is. I don't think we are any less 'upfront' than the air and ferry companies regarding this. The site also tells you which tickets can and cannot be refunded.

If you buy online, you need to apply for a refund online through your account, as the system will generate a case number for you.

If you apply by post, we will still forward your application on to the refunds department (in Scotland), but it will simply add extra time into the process and delay your claim.

I hope that's helped everyone - thanks again for your thoughts.

David.

But I can have a refund on the ticket, it's just that the admin fee is greater than the value so it's not worth it. The T&Cs for that booking even say apply online for - they should not say that if that is not true.

The consensus was that IWBU in my particular case way before you started chipping in. Thanks for your contribution though, it's been great.

I would still like to know on a more general level how a £10 fee can be applied across the board without it being mentioned anywhere on the site.

Sorry, cross-posted there David.

"If you buy online, you need to apply for a refund online through your account, as the system will generate a case number for you."
I couldn't do that though, certainly can't now as travel date has passed, but it wasn't available as an option before either

I think, as BPB said earlier, the reason you don't have the option to apply for an online refund, is because your ticket is non-refundable.