to think if a business operated like the NHS...

[hairytriangle]

then it would quickly go out of business

Just in terms of client communication and customer service.

Today I've been

1. kept waiting for one hour past my appointment time

1. had a snooty receptionist tell me I'll 'just have to wait' when I asked (nicely) whether I'd been forgotten about

1. Had to push for investigations that their own NICE guidelines say I 'should' be offered

1. Been given advice contrary to what another department of the same Trust gave, about a potentially life threatening action.

1. Been examined yet again when they could easily have got the results of the exams I had six weeks ago by lifting the phone.

I know if we treated our clients like this, then we'd quickly lose them.

You are correct, it would be out of business.

But its here, its woefully abused and I bet you didnt come home today and sign up for BUPA did you?

No, because we are all over priveliged in this country and instead of being grateful we were only kept an hour instead of walking for three days to see a doctor, we come home and whinge about it! Its all about US you see!

Oh my goodness! I've paid my NI and taxes for twenty one years,and am likely to for another probably 30 years, drawing very, very little on the NHS.

I see it as paying for a service, and expect to be treated as a client by the NHS.

I've already had a private procedure as it was not offered to me after my ectopic pregnancy (the NICE guidelines say it should be).

I am over privelidged and should be grateful I had to take a whole morning off work because they can't operate an efficient bookings system!?

Don't get me wrong, it's appalling what happens in other, less fortunate countries, but Jeez, that's a bit of a strong answer!

I'm interested to know how it's 'woefully abused'?

Its woefully abused by its stakeholders, most of whom consist of the general public. Appointment attendances are appalling, prescription abuse is rife and dont get me started on cosmetic treatments due to "psychological distress".

I do sympathise with your dissatisfaction at the treatment you receive but I do feel a lot is taken for granted here because we are so used to health services available when we need them.

There ought to be fines and so on for abuse of appointments - it's so hard for a lot of people to get in to see a doctor, and non-attendance figures are fairly shocking.

But they also ought to have some kind of guarantee that those of us who don't abuse the system will be seen at the time specified (or within a reasonable fifteen minutes)

and anyone working there ought to be given basic training on how not to be snotty - asking 'I was just wondering if I've been missed as it's forty five minutes over my appointment time' is not saying 'oi, why have I been kept waiting so long'.

They probably sit through day after day of time wasting twats turning up late and being rude to them for no reason HT.

Not fair that the rest of us have to suffer their attitude but hey, every action has a consequence.

I speak as a full time worker with an unfortunate chronic illness which requires regular four hour appointments to I do feel your pain somewhat. But I try to remind myself that the NHS is saving lives daily, thank God.

I think having to wait sometimes is inevitable. It would be inefficient to give everyone 30 minute GP appointments as standard, for example, "just in case". Clearly it's annoying for us as patients as we're the ones who have to pick up the tab timewise, as it were.

It does sound as if you've been treated badly, Hairy.

OTOH the NHS isn't a business. It can learn from business (and vice versa) but I don't think it can or should be run as one.

I've been made to wait a few times in my GP's surgery.

I'm simply grateful that I'm not the person who's causing the delay.

the NHS is NOT free for most of us, and yes, I'm entitled to the service I have been promised. I know that if need treatment for cancer I'll be using up more resources than if I need stitches once in my life and I def don't wish to be more ill in order to get my money's worth. However IT IS appallingly disorganised and it often fails to provide the basic care that we should expect in a western country in the 21st century.

System organisation aside, I have often found NHS staff to be rude in a way that no private company employer would get away with.

OP, YADNBU

BTW I don't mind waiting, whatever is for the general good is fine by me, even if a bit incovinient.

But I will not stand again to be verbally abused and not cared for like I have in the past due to feeling vulnerable because of my then condition and disability

had the delay been because someone else needed more urgent or lengthier treatment than me, that would be fine. however, i'd kind of like to be kept informed.

When I was being monitored during my ectopic, I was kept waiting several times, for up to three hours. BUT I was graciously kept well informed of why, so it wasn't an issue.

On one occasion the person I was seeing was called to an emergency on the delivery ward, and I was asked if I could go and get some lunch and come back in a couple of hours. Not a problem as I was actually told what was going on, and why there was a delay.

Today, she practically bit my head off. I was not aggressive or demanding I was really polite!

I'm with hairytriangle on this - I have benefited from our marvellous NHS and currently have an elderly relative in hospital at the moment and regardless of how lucky we are in this country there are some things that the NHS could do better.

I can't bear to think of the people in hospitals who don't have someone to fight for them. The ward my mum was originally in (she has moved hospital now thank goodness) was chaotic. Everyone was nice but until I contacted the PALS service in frustration at the lack of progress or communication, nothing got moving.

Within an hour of going to PALS, the Matron was with us, and talking to us, referrals to other specialists and hospitals had been made, tablets were changed etc etc.

Not to mention that I have spent thousands on my dd's private treatment when she was born as NHS was fobbing me off and I didn't have private insurance because I thought the NHS was there for us. I don't complain, I saved her life and will be gratefully paying the debt every month for many years to come. I do have private as well though now

I agree scatter, its very poor. been on the end of it, had family on the end of it and i was ashamed.

I am a nurse working for the NHS, and hand on heart can say that my dept is absolutely over and above excellent, the staff bend over backwards to help, assist and to look after our patients and their relatives.
I am proud to be associated with my dept.

But i can absolutley see how no other dept is like ours and its not comfortable knowing that this goes on all around me within the Trust that i work.

I think the NHS suffers from a systemic communications failure and I would not know how to remedy it. It is operating on a shoestring, constantly subjected to change and of an unwieldy size.

When I worked in the NHS, I felt barely able to breath, let alone go to the loo/have a cup of tea, I was so rushed off my feet. I don't know many people who work as hard as most of my fellow nurses did, under such stressful circumstances and with enormous responsibility (life or death). There was also confusion about who was responsible for what, which stopped stuff getting done and a hierarchical system which made staff afraid to admit mistakes or whistleblow.

I'm sorry you got a bad service. Some of your issues sound worth a complaint and I would encourage that. However, the NHS isn't a private business, and perhaps it can't be expected to respond like one. It also can't go out of business, so has to chug on.

Most of the time, it does this country proud. Just imagine if it wasn't there.....

The receptionist sounds dreadful.

I do agree that there are NHS staff who get away with rudeness that would see them fired anywhere else. Same with DWP staff (again some, not all!). I guess it's just harder to fire them.

I do agree GD - there are some sad cases of patients being overlooked and under-cared for. We had this with my own Nan who unfortulately died due to medical negligence while in an Acute ward which was overrun with CDiff.

In my opinion the administrative staff need more monitoring and training to become client focused (as they would in any private sector organisation) and the frontline care staff need more money, more investment in recruitment and more support from clinicians in acute wards.

just wanted to add. At the other hospital (when I was being treated for Ectopic) the nurses, and some of the doctors were absolutely FANTASTIC, and I wrote not only to the department head to say so, but to the individuals who were so brilliant with me. I felt like they genuinely cared for me, and cared about my feelings, and genuinely wanted to help and make sure I was well and happy.

DS1 needed operation, our private insurance refused to pay as it was "birth defect" - he had a pre-auricular sinus which is a little hole by the ear and it had to be removed as it got infected (would argue that it was infection that required removal many people have them for years asympomatic).

Appointment for hospital arrived 90 minutes before appointment, luckily I wasn't at work that day - I tried to call to postpone but would have had to wait months.

Appointment for operation arrived about a week before. That being said the care we got was fine, just the admin etc was rubbish.

HT - I agree.

In the cancer clinic (NHS) my mum attended they were always very happy to let you know how late they were running.

You could then decide if you wanted to nip out for a coffee / go to the toilet without panicking that they would call you in or simply call up my childare that I would be late / call up my Dad who was apprehensively waiting for us to call him with the result of the appointment.

No problem with them running late. If they have bad news to give then I am very happy for them to take as long as they need. It is just polite for them to keep you informed.

Unfortunately, I found with the NHS that this is the exception rather than the rule. The receptionist - who is often sitting just opposite you in a room never seems to feel the need to just say "the doctor is running 60 mins late" and if you have the guts to ask - you get your head bitten off.

No they would be making money hand over fist, exploiting their position as the dominant provider. Like BT.

theCoalitionNeedsYou ???? confused. I haven't said they should be run as a business, I've said that they should behave in a way that means they run efficiently and treat their clients well.

I work in an outpatients department in the NHS. If the clinic is running late we always inform people and keep them updated every 20 mins of how long they will have to wait.

Reasons for running late:

Overbooking of clinic. Mrs. X goes to clinic, sees doc, has a load of tests, investigations she has to have done. Doc says Mrs. X has to have a follow up appointment for 3 weeks - clinic is already fully booked so Mrs. X is overbooked onto clinic. No one is taken off the clinic as it would be unfair.

Patients only get 10 mins per appointment so if patients require more time it slows the clinic. This happens loads of time. But if every patient was given 20-30 mins appointment time people would have to wait six months to get an appointment.

I am not excusing the receptionist. She had no right to be nasty, but I am just trying to give the reasons for clinics running late.

it would be nice though, when someone turns up at the clinic for their appointment, for the receptionist to say "we're sorry to be running 45 mins late today". I think the majority of people would be fine with that

I agree with HT, to some extent. I can't understand how the NHS seems so disorganised. I am a vet in a small practice. We are very busy, and run 10 minute appointments like many GPs. We do have emergencies coming in (Road traffic accidents, patients needing hospitalised/ xrays/ fluids) We often have to spend a bit of time on some consultations (eg euthanasias, which can't be rushed) BUT we rarely run more than 20 mins late, and if we dom we are very apologetic and polite, and explain to our clients the reasons why. maybe that is because our clients can vote with their feet, but I'd like to think it is more to do with being professional and trying to provide the best service we can. There are times when our nurses (who often double up as receptionists!)and vets are stressed to the max, but we wouldn't dream of snapping at the clients!

agedknees thanks for giving us an insider view, sounds like your department is run well

But the scenario when someone is already booked into a full clinic is exactly what I mean. A business would never do it, it makes no sense whatsoever, and it doesn't help anyone (unless there is a life saving reason why it hs to be followed up in exactly three weeks).

Surely notes and referrals would give some idea of length of appointment needed?

For example, mine was a first appointment, I've got fairly complicated issues. I would probably therefore need thirty mins. Next time is a pre-op 'talk' to go through risks and procedures etc, so presumably someone somewhere knows roughly how long that would take as they do it all the time.

I'm not sayin it's an exact science but there seems to be a total lack of common sense in bookings, and no idea of good customer service in terms of the admin side of things.

there was also a nurse (or nursing assistant) chatting generally to the receptionist and complaining that she couldn't go until half twelve. There's never a time in my organisatin when a person's time isn't well utilised!