to think dh should take the chance to earn extra money no matter how little?

[bytheMoonlight]

DH is more than likely going to have to go bankrupt, we are waiting for a meeting with a citizen advice debt expert to clarify this.

This could mean losing our house, but until we know for sure we have to pay the mortgage which we are in arrears on.

Saturday night I sat down and worked out a way in which we can start to slowly pay back some of the arrears.

It means we have very little money to live off though and once we done the shop this week, we had only £10 from yesterday to Friday to last us. This will be enough to cover basics like topping up milk and bread so we should be ok.

This morning at work dh was offered the chance to earn £10 to doing an hour of someones elses job. He said no as he didnt think it was worth it.

I was annoyed when he told me as it would have effectively doubled our income for the week, but at work this afternoon I couldn't shake the feeling he is just being bone idle although he says this isn't the case.

Cue an argument when we had put dd down to bed. He's walked out now.

AIBU for thinking he should have done it?

Not at all - can't say more than that. Yanbu

£10 an hour is a good wage

but you are both under a lot of pressure so give each other a break

Sounds as if you are actively looking for a way to avoid bankruptcy, and he is resigned to it. He's given up, imo.

Also imo, yanbu. He should have done the job.

He should have done it.

He should have done it, yes.

YANBU

How can someone who is about to be made bankrupt turn down £10? I would be furious.

Well of course YANBU and of course he should've done it, but I doubt his reason for not doing it was actually what he said, it's more like he's down about the situation and feeling so dejected that he couldn't bring himself to do it. Bad way of putting it, but I think you need to be less hard on each other right now, whether or not he was in the wrong. If you do go bankrupt, you're in for a tougher time than you're experiencing right now and you will need each other's support.

I can entirely understand you feeling upset and angry at him at the moment, but he's probably extremely depressed about everything right now, feeling like he's a failure. Things probably won't get better if you can't prop each other up, IYGWIM.

Sorry, I don't mean to criticise your response to him, because in all honesty, I probably would've responded the same way you have, but I think you need to see beyond £10 being the issue here.

Thanks for your responses, I didn't think I was being BU, but I can now see the need to handle it differently and to and understand the way he is feeling.

He's back now, saying he can see my point of view and in future will do any work that comes up.

We seem to bicker almost every day about money in some way or another

Just got to through it I guess.

Thanks everyone

BTM - sorry things are so bleak.

Will your plan mean he doesn't have to go bankrupt? I hope so, because it really does impact your life for a long time to come:( I know someone who did it and he still can't get a mortgage many years later - he really egrets it and says he wishes he'd known then what he knows now - he was young & believed people when they said it wasn't a big deal :( he lost his wife as well through it all as she didn't think he should do it. Very sad.

I don't think there is much I can do to stop the bankruptcy tbh ChippinIn.

We just have to wait and see what CAB say and see if they have another solution.

But I think getting behind on our mortgage payments is not advisable, and I hate the letters from the mortgage company more than the other debt collecting letters so am trying to at least get us straight in that area.

Hi, BTM.

Let's hope that the CAB can come up with a plan. How helpful are eth mortgage company and others being?

I can understand why you were annoyed, I woudl have been, too - poor dh though, this must all be a blow to his pride.

One of the terrible things about this country is our attitude to people who go bust. In the US it's assumed that most people starting a business will fail at least twice before getting something successful up and running. Sam Beckford of the Small Business Millionaire went bust five times (at one point he had to put food back on the supermarket shelf because the till rejected his debit card) before making, well, millions. In this country it gets held over people which is ridiculous, particularly in the current climate as it holds back the recovery of the country as a whole. (A bit scarey to see that the US is thinking of adopting a system smilar to ours - we can do without the US economy going down the pan).

Anyway, in spite of this you can make things better. Just have a plan and stick to it.

Hope all goes well. xx

Morning BTM

I hope the CAB can help you come up with a plan to work your way out of this.

Many years ago we had a business and we got shafted really badly and the business went from bad to worse. We were advised to go bankrupt - we chose not to and fought our way out of it. We didn't want the hassle/stigma for ourselves and more importantly we didn't want people who we had (over the years) become friends/friendly with to suffer (they would have lost all the money out business owed them). We knew many of their families and just couldn't do it to them. We really struggled - but we made it in the end.

I don't know what your situation is and you might not be able to 'choose' not to or fight your way back :( but if there is anyway you can, it's worth it in the end.

SpiritMum - I'm glad it's the way it is here. A lot of people can suffer when a business goes bankrupt and usually it's people who can ill afford to take the hit themselves. It shouldn't be 'an easy option'. I doubt now that SB is a millionaire he has been back and repaid all the people who lost out when he kept going bankrupt :(

BTM - I'm glad the DH now sees that every little help and I really really hope you can keep the house and find a way around it x

I feel for you, you can also use one of the charity organizations (Consumer Credit Counselling or there's another one) to formulate a debt management plan and they pay your creditors regularly with any spare money you have. Mortgage is always a priority debt,as are your bills and other creditors just have to take what is left (and if that's 1p each, so be it). It does ruin your credit rating though for six years, so I'm not sure how that differs from going bankrupt.

It's worth investigating all the options. There's lots of free help out there (obviously the debt management companies that charge of money are not so good).

Don't feel bad that you are starting to take it out on each other. But do get specialist help. The charities are excellent and will help set up formal arrangements with your creditors. You may be better off going bankrupt but at least you would have looked into all of the options.

Your husband might have just thought in a moment of depression, what's the point? I'm guessing your debts are large and probably seem dwarfed by earning £10 extra, even though I agree with you all money is worth it. However, it sounds like he's taken on board what you have said and will work towards earning more money. It is hard, though.

Low mortgage rates have really cushioned a lot of people from the full force of the recession. If they rise, lots of people will be in the same position as you. Try to make it a joint project for you to share (getting out of debt) rather than something that tears you apart. Get good advice, settle on a plan (debt management/bankruptcy or whatever) and then do it together. You will probably feel a lot better once you have done this compared with now!

ChippinIn, I agree about the necessity to pay back especially the small creditors. In fact one of the things that is wrong with our current system is that it skews in favour of paying off the big guys first and very often the small suppliers don't get a penny. What I do think is a shame is that we don't accept that people learn such a lot from failure that they often have a better chance of pulling off a new venture, and creating new jobs into the bargain. That's what I struggle with, the fact that once you are declared bankrupt it's held over you for years and you are seen as inherently untrustworthy, which can be very unfair if a company or person has gone bust because of bad debts from somewhere else. So I'm not advocating bankruptcy at all, I just want a fair deal for all concerned.

(re SB, I have no idea if he has paid of everyone but I know he paid off some of his debts and is known as a philanthropist in the States - but again philanthropy is something we frown on here for some reason).

I have tried to write something about how impressed I am that you staved off bankruptcy and it sounds lame and patronising, but I am, seriously.

BTM - hope all is going well - just remembered the group Christians Against Poverty offer a free service to get people debt free and you don't have to be a Christian to use them. Might be worth a look if there's no joy elsewhere.

Spiritmum

Thanks - it was a very, very hard time - long hours, lots of work and often we wondered if it was really worth it, but knowing our problem hadn't impacted on other smaller businesses too much (they has to wait for money, but got every bit of it), made us feel better about life. We were fortunate though to have a good business so were able to use it to work hard and get back on our feet if you know what I mean. Right now, I think there are people less fortunate than us who would be prepared to work just as hard, but the business may not be out there :(

I know what you are saying about learning from mistakes and then going on to create jobs etc. and I agree, I just wish there was a way to stop small businesses in particular suffering and being used as stepping stones to greater things.

I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet as my Ex's friend frequently puts his current business into insolvency, doesn't pay the taxes or creditors then starts up another business - he's rolling in money now, but many others suffer and he just keeps getting away with it :(

BTM sorry for the hijack! None of this is aimed at you at all. We all have to do what we have to do - I just hope you can figure something out that allows you to keep your house and your head above water!!

So do I ChippingIn

We had a letter today from the National Debt Helpline who know our circumstances and it said if we cleared our mortgage arrears we may have enough surplas income to do either a debt management plan or an IVA.

So fingers crossed there may be another way out

ah male pride! I see why you are annoyeed but try and swallow it, tough times for you

Phew! Hope so, BTM - crossing everything for you xxx

x x x x x x x x x x

That's fingers & toes!!

Are you far off of clearing the mortgage debt?

The mortgage debt can form part of an IVA or debt management plan. You don't need to clear mortgage debt first. How soon is your Citizen's Advice appointment? You really need it.

To be honest, you shouldn't be starving yourselves to pay a month's mortgage payment. For example, you can ring and tell them your circumstances and make a notional payment while you are sorting out what you are going to do.

When I was in similar circumstances I spoke to the National Debt Helpline, who were really helpful. I was told not to pay my mortgage payments for a month and go out and buy some food! (And lots of other constructive advice of course).

Why work when you can live via further credit prior to bankrupty? It'll all be written off in one go.

Yes its a fekless attitude, but the reality of your situation.

£10 isnt going to make any difference at all, and its understandable your husband doesnt want to be seen as a charity case.

You need to face up to the fact that you are going to lose your house. Now is the time to plan for how you are going to cope afterwards, and how much help you can get in benefits.

yanbu he should have done it £10 a hr is a good wage

Can I just say that, honestly, nobody will condemn you in bankruptcy proceedings if you have to stop paying the mortgage, or pay a token payment while you decide if you are going bankrupt or not. If you end up bankrupt then it's better not to have run yourself down to your final £20 in your bank account. Life is going to be tough, and you will need that money more than the mortgage company do.
If you don't go bankrupt then the mortgage debt will be part of any repayment plan you enter into. So honestly, I wouldn't be paying them. The letters are scarey, but it takes months before any action happens, and by then you would be under the protection of the Official Receiver, or they will be getting something from your payment agreement.
Bear in mind also that it costs you money to go bankrupt! I think it's £350, if you are on benefits, but more if you aren't. So you need some money squirelled away.
So, I think your OH should earn any £10 he can, but not to pay towards the mortgage, to put food in the cupboards. Bear in mind though that different people react in different ways to situations like this. He may be almost depressed to the point where he can't act or think straight.
Good luck with it all.

p.s. You may not lose your house (or you might). You haven't decided if you are going bankrupt, entering into an IVA etc yet. Nothing is decided at this stage.