to be hacked off that the Brighthouse vultures are opening a shop in our town?

[Meglet]

I know they charge extortionate interest rates so had a Google and am disheartened that they can take advantage of people like they do.

"Everyone I've known who has been in trouble with the Brighthouse has owed on flat-screen TVs, playstations and oversized sofas..."

Multiply the size of the largest TV in the house by the number of TVs and number of video game machines. That gives the %age chance that the household has no-one in employment.

Radio rentals, god I havent heard that name for ages! I think we might have had a telly from them once when I was very small, or maybe it was my nan.

I'd agree, it is possible to handwash etc, of course it is. But its a pita if you have to do everything that way. I'm not sure I understand the drying comment? Are you saying everyone now has a dryer? Surely we dry our things the same way as people without washing machines did... on the loine, or in the bathroom/radiator/by fire if its raining?

i'm also shuddering at the thought of ever being daft enough to get into debt over a tv.

I'm also trying to work out how I would fit in working outside the house with handwashing for 5! My granny had to handwash for 7 - not something she ever wanted for her daughters. Forget the contraceptive pill - it's the washing machine that has truly liberated women

"Legislation to limit the credit rates will help in the long run as less people will get caught up in the trap of borrowing at horrendous rates and then not being able to pay back."

Whose responsibility is it to protect people from that trap? Should we make life into a soft-play area, where you can be certain that the playgroup leaders have removed all risk, or should we educate people to deal with risk? I think one of the problems we saw with the Icesave debacle (and, for reference, I think the government should have left the savers to lose their money) is moral hazard: people will take a high interest rate from a bad institution because they know they won't lose their money, which allows bad institutions (and Icesave was obviously bad) to prosper. If you encourage people to believe that daddy will make all your financial transactions safe, people are discouraged from actually considering the risks.

We saw this also with endowment "mis-selling" (for reference, I'd tell all the whingers to get stuffed, because either they knew the score or should damned well have done so) and even more perniciously the pensions "mis-selling" around teachers and local government employees, who really did have it coming to them. People entered into financial transactions they didn't understand, and then expected the state (ie, us) to pick up the pieces. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and if you really want to help people, financial education is the only answer.

AIBU to think that people should take some responsibility for their own actions?

"I'm not sure I understand the drying comment? Are you saying everyone now has a dryer? Surely we dry our things the same way as people without washing machines did... on the loine, or in the bathroom/radiator/by fire if its raining?"

You're living in a small flat. It's damp. It's December. You're struggling with the heating payments. Discuss the wisdom of drying large amounts of washing on the radiator.

FFS. My parents both worked, had no car, no central heating. We had a little damp. My father sorted sheepskins and my mother cleaned and had a part time job. And they had no TV and so didn't sit on their arse every night. It was hard but it truly paid off, they have never had HP, an overdraft or any debt outside of a mortgage., They didn't expect anything for nothing and now have an awful lot..

Small flat = easier to heat than a big one.
If the heating is on, it costs no more to have an indoor airer standing in a room.
And if you cant afford the heating on, then you wouldnt be able to afford a dryer on anyway.

We lived in a garage for 3 years at uni, damp and small and no washing machine. We had £21 a week to live off. We managed. Ok, no kids, but we survived. If needs must, you struggle through. But of course I'm not saying its nice, or the best option.

I'm now trying to remember where my mum hung our washing... we had a twin tub, and a spin drier,and many years later when it broke, we never replaced it. She hand washed, and took big loads to her friend to do in exchange for my mum doing their ironing

"And if you cant afford the heating on, then you wouldnt be able to afford a dryer on anyway."

Perhaps not, but you would be able to afford to run the spin-cycle on your washing machine. Which makes an immense difference. Back in t'past which people seem so keen on women had, and used, mangles for a damned good reason.

And as someone's pointed out upthread, the washing machine had almost as profound an effect on women's lives as reliable contraception. To argue that poor people should be denied that on the grounds that they can't afford it seems uncharitable, to say the least: a lot of people can't afford health-care either, but we have the NHS because assuring people a basic decent standard of health is what makes us a decent society.

"Really - you think handwashing is something to aspire to? Just out of interest Posie, does she still handwash, or did she get a washing machine just as quickly as she could?"

Noone aspires to handwash. She got a washing machine as soon as she could afford one. Besides all of her relatives that had everything still have the same poverty stricken entitlement style life. My parents started with far less than all of them and now have significantly more than all. It's poor thinking to want everything now and worry about paying later.....I should know, I have everything and a £10,000 overdraft.

No, I fully expect people to take responsibility for their own actions - but I also expect retailers to act responsibility, and that means not charging extortionate interest rates.

Posie - that's great that your parents worked hard (along with millions of other parents up and down the country). Your mother's life would have been so much easier if she had a washing machine though, wouldn't it? Would you really deny any woman that, regardless of her income? Otherwise - why are we not still washing by hand in the stream, beating clothes against the rocks, if we're going to deny all pleasure in life!

I would fervently deny every person the right/opportunity to go into debt and think if people stopped thinking about easy life over debt free life, their lives would actually be easier in the long run.

The countries mindset has changed posie, we are not going to return to the days of mend and make do unless forced to, by removing credit and benefits.

Some people are weird. Since when is a washing machine a luxury?

Op - YANBU. BH's APR's are little short of theft. And yes, we do protect people from themselves all the time. Safety standards on goods, seatbelts, bike helmets etc. One could argue that if people used things properly, everyone drove safely, we wouldn't need such things, but they don't so protective measures are good.

I'm sure the country's mindset has changed. But during a recent spell of financial hardship my attitude had changed, so why couldn't others? I waste less food, I don't just replace stuff all of the time.....

Because if you're on benefits then your income hasn't reduced has it ? So why should they care it's not like it their money, easy come easy go I guess.

Yes, the mindset has changed. And I totally agree that a washing machine is very very hard to live without.Its one of the top household essentials.

But I do agree with you posie, that people have just forgotten how to not live a disposable lifestyle! Its a similar thing to something I was discussing the other day, about how these days so many parents have forgotten how to just let their kids get on and play, instead they have to take them to 100 after school/pre school groups etc. Like taking them to an art class aged 2; well, we just painted and stuck at home. . I'm sure you get my drift. I really do think some people have forgotten how to fix things/cook from scratch etc.

It's impossible to get stuff fixed now though

I bought a lamp on ebay and it took me months to find someone who could re-wire it for me

There are only certain things that can be fixed it seems - my washing machine was fixed at a cost of £200 (it was worth it) but modern tv's can't be fixed if they lose pixels

If people want to go into debt, then that's their choice - but if someone needs to go into debt in order to buy a washing machine, then I would suggest that we make it as easy for them to repay that debt as possible - not whack up the interest repayments so they have no hope in hell of repaying it. I'm less concerned about people who use BH for gaming consoles however...

"I would fervently deny every person the right/opportunity to go into debt"

You mean you'd secure the rights of the existing landlord class to charge whatever rents they want, secure in the knowledge that no-one currently renting a property will ever be able to buy one? Or are mortgages some sort of special debt that you don't think really is debt? Presumably your parents, of whom you wrote " It was hard but it truly paid off, they have never had HP, an overdraft or any debt outside of a mortgage." were only virtuous about small debts, and made a special exclusion for the larger ones.

It's funny how people who are smug about HP (which is essentially a loan secured over an asset) are perfectly happy to get mortgages (which are a larger loan secured over a larger asset). HP was working class; a mortgage was the sine qua non of becoming middle class.

Laurie - agree. Our hoover broke recently - it was going to cost £50 plus VAT to fix it, once we'd found someone who would fix it. Tesco do a brand new one for £40 - go figure...

"modern tv's can't be fixed if they lose pixels"

Older TVs couldn't be fixed (other than by replacing the tube) if the phosphor went on a couple of pixels, either. It's a pretty fundamental property of how they work.

"Laurie - agree. Our hoover broke recently - it was going to cost £50 plus VAT to fix it, once we'd found someone who would fix it. Tesco do a brand new one for £40 - go figure..."

UK labour costs (for repairs) are higher than Chinese slave low-cost labour (for manufacturing), and repair requires more time and more skill than mass production.

You could replace the cathode tube on older tv's but you can't fix the modern ones at all

I agree Laurie, things like washing machines are made not to be fixable; many have sealed drums and other internal workings now. We always used to fix ours, now we cant get into the right parts. And I swear there is a conspiracy re tv manufacture. Although we do only have second hand tellies from freecycle, so I dont feel bad about being wasteful.