To think that Autism/ASD is being used too freqently in toddler pre school children

[pigletmania]

I have noticed here on MN and also in real life that if a toddler/pre school child's behaviour does not conform to the 'norm' and I use the term loosely, that they must have ASD, Aspergers which is just not necessarily the case and will most probably grow out of it in their own time.

Children from a very young age are under constant assessment and scruitny which does not allow for individual personality differences, and does not allow for the child to develop in at their own pace. They are not robots but inividuals! Of course I understand that there are young children with real difficulties that do need help and intervention and don't dispute that. I use my own dd 3.5 as and example.

We self referred her to SALT this April as we were concered about her social communication and also pressure from friends and relatives. DD goes to a pre school too and they were concerened about it too so have referred her onto ED Psych. DD is quite shy like dh and did not like to communicate to different people especially ones that she does not know, she finds it difficult to make conversations and initiate them (she is only 3 fgs). She loves other children but does not know what to say to them and does not always make eye contact.

The SALT came on Monday as a follow up and suggested a referral to a Paedritrician(sp) and talked about possibility of ASD wtF!!!!!! We declined at the moment. Since the SALTS first assesment at the beginning of July we have noticed progress in dd interaction and the way in which she communicates. She now makes eye contact and has made efforts to communicate to other children, nothing at a bit of time and help from SALT and Ed psych will sort out. Why te Paedritrican fgs. Just because she needs a bit of help with her social communication does not mean she needs the paedritrican and she has ASD. She is still young and is learning all the time.

There is so much expectation of people so young. Its expected that they be potty trainned, feed themselves, and communicate like adults before 2! Sorry for the long post btw

I agree. Every child 'must' behave in the same way, if they don't then there's something amiss, it's rediculous and takes resources away from those children who really need them.

I think there are many MN-ers out there who have struggled and struggled to obtain referrals to paeds and SALT assessment because they suspect their DC has a problem who would disagree with you........

Surely it's better to have a referral to rule these things out than to be left to worry........and you obviously were worried to have self referred to SALT.........

Yes sapphire but not enough for a Paedritrician. I was the same when I was younger and my dad was late to communicate so was Einsteine and I cannot stop now!

DD needs some support not nessesarily that she is ASD or has Aspergers.

If you look hard enough you'll find something in everyone. Having trained as a paeds nurse though there's always another side to the coin.

YABU. I think you sound a bit defensive, why wouldn't you want yoor child to be seen by a paediatrician and maybe access some additional resources if required. I have a child with special needs by the way and early intervention is key. If your child doesn't have any additional needs they won't see them again.

Vjg I can see progress she is getting better everyday, would rather leave those resources for a child that really needs it

Sometimes i think they like to cover all aspects, just so they know that there is nothing medically wrong, then they can concentrate on any area that the child may need help with.

our eldest has special needs, however our youngest was also referred to SALT for help, as he also is just a bit shy.

we do not see any similarities ourselves, as at home our youngest talks to us with no problems, the school and salt know this, and thats why we have not taken it any further because we as parents of a special needs child know what to look for.

so it is wise sometimes to get a child checked out early, because if they do need any help, the earlier they know the better it will be to start giving a child in that position the help they need.

and if there is nothing wrong at least its peace of mind for the parents and any people involved.

well then you have done the right thing in turning down the paed referral.

I do agree with you that there is a lot of emphasis on what is conceived to be "normal" and many parents are probably being given cause to worry unnecessarily.

But I think Einstein might have been on the autistic spectrum.

Thing is, it comes with more awareness - which is surely a good thing: access to professionals for diagnosis, adequate support etc

My experience (two children with ASD) is that usually the opposite is true. People are usually very quick to reassure you that in fact nothing is wrong and that all toddlers do X,Y and Z.

I agree that there can be a lot of misunderstanding about ASD and associated behaviours, but I think it goes both ways. For every person who mistakenly believes that a child who likes to line things up and spin in circles must have ASD, there will be another who thinks that a child can't possibly have ASD because they are affectionate, can speak well, have a friend etc.

i would much rather have an unneeded assessment than have to fight for a much needed one,so YABU a bit, attitudes like yours encourage people to think kids with ASD are just spoilt /naughty etc. You are one of the lucky ones.

I think you should trust that a paediatrician would not be jumping at the opportunity to diagnose ASD. Quite the opposite as it's often a distressing diagnosis to offer the parents & I'm sure paediatricians & other professionals want to rule out other things first. Personally I would continue with the SALT & Ed psych if you feel they're useful & ask for further opinion from them in a couple months if it's necessary. I do agree with you on principle that there tends to be overreliance on 'diagnoses' in this country (eg ADHD super-overdiagnosed IMO) but on the other hand if you like/trust the professionals you're seeing there's no harm seeking their opinion. You can always get another opinion after all.

DD is getting help, we are having an Ed psych referral and she is under the SALT and are putting the paed refferral for later seeing how things go. If dd was not making any progress and was staying the same than yes.

It isnt just about the progress being made, its also whether she is at the same level as her peers, thats what they are looking at.

'Children from a very young age are under constant assessment and scruitny'

Sorry but this is, ime, nonsense. I agree with coppertop and have also found the opposite to be true. I have a severely autistic dd who clearly had ASD, yet no professional wanted to put it in writing or even agree with me that she had ASD. In the end I had to pay over 1K for her to get a decent assessment and a report that would actually get her any provision.

She had no skills, and all I got from HCPs was cr@p about how she would probably turn out ok and they weren't concerned because she could do a jugsaw.

Unless things have changed drastically in the last 5-6 years, or unless you live in an area where provision is great I can't really identify with what you say at all.

Finally, Ed Psychs are not qualified to diagnose - only developmental paeds can do this. And imo a dx of ASD from a developmental paediatrician is highly unlikely to be incorrect. It is not a dx that is given lightly - it is self-evident from the child's behaviours. And this should all be clearly referenced in any dx report.

I have to say though Pigletmania (just playing devil's advocate really) that children with ASD do make progress, they also grow & develop. Not saying your DD has ASD as how could I know, just commenting on the issue of progress. IMO early intervention is useful in any issues with children, from the tiniest problem to the biggest. Professionals know very very well that children change, develop & make progress continuously. It's not lack of progress that they're looking out for iyswim.

IME, YANBU. DS was an extremely difficult 2 year old and his playschool teacher suggested to me that he had autism and I must take him for an assessment on the grounds that he was non-compliant, had trouble with transitions and flapped his hands. We went to a very stressful appointment to be told by paed that there was absolutely no way he was ASD. Now, at 4, DS still has some problems - he is, I think, very highly strung and emotional and I wouldn't be surprised to get an ADHD diagnosis one day, but he can be managed and disciplined.

As OP says, I think it is a case of a difficult/extreme personality being assumed to be ASD.

I think that MNers who have personal experience of coping with ASD may well be hurt by this discussion. It can be very difficult to get an assessment when it is really needed.

Trust that the paediatrician will take your views seriously. It's great that your DD is making progress. Perhaps the paediatrician will say there's nothing to worry about, in which case your mind will be set at rest. If s/he says that your DD could benefit from extra support, then that's great too because it means she'll get the support if she needs it.

Einstein was very possibly on the 'autistic spectrum'. A diagnosis of ASD is certainly not the end of the world, as I'm sure you realise. I have worked with a fair few children with ASD and have found them all to be extremely interesting, clever and well-adjusted young people.

I'm afraid I think your post is horseshit

you are angry and lashing out because it has been suggested that your dc might be on the autistic spectrum and you find this difficult to accept

with which I can sympathise, having been there myself

however to suggest that NT children are being misdiagnosed with complex SN willynilly is just ridiculous

it is in fact very difficult to obtain a diagnosis for a child, especially a young child - even when the condition is very pronounced and easy to see

do you think ed psychs and paediatricians and portage workers and autism specialists and SALTs go around slapping labels on perfectly ordinary NT children just for fun? Or to keep themselves in work?

perhaps you would prefer a return to the days when children on the autistic spectrum or with other social communication/behavioural disorders just ended up hunched at the back of the class, learning nothing, getting into trouble, getting whacked and generally building up a huge burden of alienation, anger and shame which they then carried with them for the rest of their lives

so that people like you could be spared the inconvenience of having trained and competent professionals assess and consider your child's needs, free of charge and entirely for your child's benefit

it beggars belief

Tryingtoleave: it's completely wrong for any playschool (or other) teacher to just make a throwaway comment about a particular diagnosis. It's of course right to suggest a referral if there are any concerns but teachers are not the ones to diagnose or even assess: often they can of course have excellent instincts due to experience but equally they can be on a completely wrong track as many childhood problems have similarities to each other & yet are the result of very different conditions or different set of circumstances.

I think its very easy as a parent to put your head in the sand and not accept that something is wrong.

My son has an assessment for ASD. It involved him seeing a arrange of health professionals. It turned out that he was not autisic, but he had severe glue ear. The assessments made a strong case to jump the waiting list to get grommets.

ASD does not equal evil. People with ASD are varied and every person is an individual.

SALT are in a strong position to suggest a diagnoses of autism. They are very experienced at assessing play skills. They have extensive training of how to work with autisic children.

What is wrong with seeing a paediatrian? The SALT is only doing her job.

reallytired - I do agree some SALTs are excellent when it comes to ASD - Auriol Drew for example.

pigletmania I understand that you are upset that this suggestion has been made but my experience is that mention of this is only made by health professionals (and I mean SALT, Paed) when it is something they are considering (even if it is ruled out along the way).

We have just had our second paed consult which was basically to agree that DS1 would go to the child development centre's nursery for a few sessions a week for 6-8 weeks so their mutli-disciplinary team can assess him in detail.

Only twice has ASD been mentioned and in neither case was this specifically relating to my son.

My DS will receive 15 hours funded 1-1 at pre-school from Sept and DAILY sessions at home outside of that with the communication and interaction team. He is 3.9, verbal with some good eye-contact and has made huge leaps of improvement since we first got the HV to refer him on.

However, rightly or wrongly, once he goes to school (and we need to apply before the end of the year) his being "different" will be a problem because his lack of communication skills (whether they are down to something we're doing wrong, or "just" something he'll eventually grow out of, or his personaility or autism) will hinder him once he is in an environment with 30 other kids and only a few adults. Especially when he is meant to direct some of his learning himself [hollow laugh].

If you want my opinion, take the paed referral (it took 12 months for us to get one) and I assure you they won't actually give your child any label unless they are sure of it but if your DD has got social and communication difficulties (for whatever reason) they CAN help identify these and ways to assist her. And if it's nothing then all to the good.

So YABU in thinking the label is overapplied.