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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder what the rules are on guide dogs?

41 replies

PDR · 08/08/2010 18:15

This afternoon some people came into the hotel I work in with a dog and started to walk down to the bar/restaurant area - I was chatting to another guests so once I had finished I went off after them to ask them if they knew someone here (the dog looked quite like my colleague's dog) as we don't really allow dogs in the hotel.

The lady (who was reading the wine list) said they were going out to the terrace (where we do allow dogs) Ok - fine no problem - I just said next time can you please go around through the garden. Then she said "oh the dog's a guide dog anyway" in a smug manner.

Now if in fact this dog was a Guide Dog I do not know, perhaps the woman had some disability I could not see? She was neither blind nor deaf though and the dog did not have a harness thingy which I have seen on Guide Dogs before.

Anyway, my point, surely if you did have a Guide Dog and you were entering a place where dogs were probably not allowed, would you just walk on in, or would you mention it to a member of staff?

OP posts:
Morloth · 08/08/2010 18:19

I am pretty sure they either have something on the harness or there is a card or something? I could be wrong here but I remember being on a train and the dog didn't appear to be a guide dog but the owner had a card that he showed the guard when asked so it was all OK.

I don't think they should have to say anything to anyone, guide dogs are always excepted (well mostly) much better for the hassle to be on the place rather than the person with the disability.

LetThereBeRock · 08/08/2010 18:21

I'd expect to be able to just walk in if I had a guide dog.Why wouldn't I? They're allowed to go where other dogs are not.

This doesn't sound at all like a guide dog however. Generally it's very obvious if a dog is an assistance dog as they usually have a specific type of harness and a coat or similar stating that they are a guide dog/hearing dog for the deaf etc.

LetThereBeRock · 08/08/2010 18:22

Or a card as Morloth said.

Original poster
PDR · 08/08/2010 18:30

I totally understand that people with Guide Dogs should be able to go wherever they want but when the Guide Dog is not obviously a Guide Dog it's quite hard not to ask as sometimes people do just wander in with dogs....

Are there perhaps people with other disabilities not the blind/deaf that might use a Guide Dog?

Also, what would the situation be if the dog was an "off-duty" Guide Dog? ie. without the person with the disability being present? Would they still have right of entry?

OP posts:
sarah293 · 08/08/2010 18:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MALIMOO78 · 08/08/2010 18:32

Tricky one. I worked as a manager for a major fast food chain for 10 years and on occasion came across assistance dogs. We had a sign up in the store saying assistance dogs welcome. What you need to ask yourself is, what would you prefer, the smugness of the potentially lying customer getting one over on you, or a negative press story about how the business is discriminating against the disabled. Personally, I would take her word for it and move on, especially if the dog is not in a food area. If the Environmental Health Officer happened to come in the same time as the dog, do you think they would quiz the owner? I think not.

RubberDuck · 08/08/2010 18:32

Puppy walkers will take a trainee guide dog to places without harness, to familiarise the dog with that kind of environment. But in my experience they usually ask permission first. Sounds like she was just trying it on, to me.

SloanyPony · 08/08/2010 18:33

Was she training the guide dog? As part of their training, they have to be socialised and get out and about in society in settings where they might one day have to "work".

pranma · 08/08/2010 18:35

I think she was trying it on-all 'disability dogs'wear either a harness or a jacket.In fact a 'guide dog' is for the blind and would definitely be wearing a harness.

SloanyPony · 08/08/2010 18:35

To answer the question, no, I would not expect to have to announce my guide dog, whether I had a disability or whether I was training it or for whatever reason.

However, if my guide dog was not obviously a guide dog (perhaps nothing on the harness or me not blind or whatever) then I wouldn't be offended if someone asked me to prove it by showing said card.

Original poster
PDR · 08/08/2010 18:37

Maybe she was training?

Just to repeat myself, totally fine to bring a guide dog in, just would have just thought that she would have come to the desk and explained first...

Also the fact that she firstly said she was going out onto the terrace, and then added the fact that the dog was a Guide Dog.

OP posts:
LetThereBeRock · 08/08/2010 18:38

Assistance dogs are used for a variety of illnesses. There are dogs which detect the onset of seizures in people who have epilepsy,dogs who assist people with physical disabilities,dogs who help children and adults with autism or mental illnesess to name just a few examples.

I don't believe that the dog would be allowed to enter the premises without their owner,though I'm not entirely sure.

The reason for allowing the dog into facilities where other dogs are not permitted is to enable the person with the disability to access the services/place.

If they weren't allowed to take the dog in with then they may not be able to make use of the facility and therefore are being prevented from accessing the service which means they're being discriminated against.

If the dog isn't working i.e with the person it assists then there's no need that I can see for it to be there,unless perhaps under exceptional circumstances

RubberDuck · 08/08/2010 18:38

"all 'disability dogs'wear either a harness or a jacket" - only if they're actively working at the time rather than being trained. My neighbour who puppy walked for a trainee guide dog did not take her out with either a harness or a jacket.

LetThereBeRock · 08/08/2010 18:40

I did see a young police dog entering a cafe last week however,but it was in training and therefore needs to get used to public places and people,as is true of assistance dogs who are in training.

Original poster
PDR · 08/08/2010 18:40

Totally plausable that she is in training... or perhaps too hot to wear the jacket today (v warm here).

OP posts:
Original poster
PDR · 08/08/2010 18:41

Was not a puppy though was a fully grown dog, though I am not an expert on all things canine!

OP posts:
RubberDuck · 08/08/2010 18:42

"Puppy" walkers take care of the dog until they're 12-14 months old, before going to proper training, so might not look puppyish :)

Original poster
PDR · 08/08/2010 18:50

Next time I will ask for above mentioned card - though would feel very Blush about asking!!!!!!

OP posts:
emptyshell · 08/08/2010 18:52

Yeah I'm pretty sure the lady I worked with who was a puppy walker (think Andrex puppy cute overload at times) just had a normal lead on it - and was basically just trying to get it used to as many everyday experiences as possible.

doggystyle · 08/08/2010 18:53

name change check

stripeyknickersspottysocks · 08/08/2010 18:57

But if they don't have a card I think you could be on thin ice if you then turn them away. What if they'd forgotten their card and you turned a disabled person away? Would you be guilty of disability discrimination? Don't know.

I think it would be fair to ask what sort of a guide dog the dog is if the person is obviously not blind or deaf.

Original poster
PDR · 08/08/2010 19:00

You know I don't think I'd have the balls to actually turn them away!

OP posts:
doggystyle · 08/08/2010 19:15

All working guide dogs and assistance dogs will have some kind of clear identification. A guide dog that is guiding a blind person will have a harness, or a guide dog lead.

Guide dog puppies who are in training with a volunteer puppy walker should have a lead which identifies them as a guide dog pup. If the puppy walker is taking them into a building as part of their 'socialisation' training, then the walker should always ask permission.

When guide dogs are in formal training the dog will always be identified clearly and the trainer will wear a high vis guide dog jacket.

There are occasions when a guide dog is not with it's blind owner, for example if the blind owner is in hospital, or if the dog has become too old to work and is retired. In these cases it is often family friends who will look after the dog. In such cases, these people may assume that because the dog is a guide dog (and trained to be very quiet in public places) then they can take the dog into places it would not otherwise be allowed. This is not the case. As with guide dog puppies, if there is a specific reason for them to be somewhere then the person ahould always ask, and they can be refused access by the hotel / restaurant / taxi / whatever.

These are the formal rules. However.... people are people and not everyone abides by them. And some blind people think it is degrading for them to be labelled by having to have a high vis harness for their dog, and would prefer to look normal and not have identification.

As the OP says, you have a right to ask for verification / identification, but I guess a lot of people err of the side of political correctness for fear of getting it wrong and be acused of discrimination.

Original poster
PDR · 08/08/2010 19:24

Thank you doggystyle for all the info! I knew everyone on here would be a lot more knowledgable than I am on the subject!

Difficult situation.... I do hope though that people who have removed all formal signs of the dog being a Guide Dog would not be too offended when being asked for verification....

OP posts:
MrsSchadenfreude · 08/08/2010 19:32

My aunt is blind and has a guide dog, but does not often use the harness. And you really, really would not know that she was blind! I was shopping with her once, and we were accosted in M & S - she showed the card, and all was fine - and yes, she preferred not to use the harness, unless she was somewhere unfamiliar or with busy streets.