to get really annoyed with non-disabled people parking in disabled spaces?

[LauraKB]

and the same for parent and child spaces.

Also the same for disabled toilets (not the parking in bit), especially when parents take their same sex children into them when they would be perfectly capable of using the normal toilets. I do however understand Fathers taking their daughters to a disabled toilet cos you wouldn't want them to go into the gents and they are too small to go into the ladies alone.

There have been lots of examples on Mumsnet though of people with 'no apparent' disability. My son can - on a good day - appear not disabled, but on a typical day we really, really need the blue badge. Other people on Mumsnet have described having abuse thrown at them or their loved ones for a their lack of disability when they've had heart problems or terminal cancer and so tire very quickly.

I tend to believe blue badges. I would never abuse ds1's and the vast majority of people are the same.

Get pissed off with people not displaying blue badges parking in disabled spots - but that's different.

P&T spaces 'at the back' would only be safer if there was a fenced walkway leading to the shop. Was present once when a child was killed in a car park - the work of a moment - toddlers just aren't visible through a rear window. And it's easy to say that Mums should have control of their children at all times - but harder in practice.

I have a 9 month old, 5 year old and 25 weeks preg also with mother-in-law with dementia. If we are all out together we will use the diabled cos there is NO WAY I can let them/fit anywhere else. I told a very agressive person in a wheelchair this in a very kindly way it was necessary (inside seething) when challenged as we came out.

For the record I would gladly give up my P&T space for a disabled person if there were no disabled spaces left as I feel it is easier (not necessarily easy) for me to manage DD in and out of the car in a normal space than it is for someone with mobility difficulties to manage in a normal space.

Disabled spaces should be vigariously enforced by law (aren't they already?) I'd put points on peoples licences for abusing them.

P+T? Marketing ploy by supermarkets, who cares?

In Scotland I believe the MSP Jackie Baillie is proposing a Private Members Bill to make disabled spaces legally enforceable but I'm not sure where she is with this or the extent of its proposed powers.

I'm going to add my twopenneth.
Why don't they make parking spaces wider? I think this would solve a lot of the p&t problems. Some spaces are very tight and often if the car next to mine isn't parked in the middle, either I have to park off centre or contort myself to pyhsically get out of the car(and I am a size 10).

With regard to using disabled toilets quite often it is the only toilet that will fit a toddle, adult and baby so I have no problems with parents using them, unless there are sufficient childrens toilets.

Or, we could have regulations as to the size of the cars themselves?

There is already a shortage of parking spaces in many cities.

muminthemiddle , you might find it interesting to see how much effort the disabled community had to put in to get disabled toilets in the first place. I have heard some of the issue surrounding statements like the one you made comes from the fact that it's very hard to find similar prolonged nationwide effort from parents...

I have no issue with using disabled toilet. The distinction I draw between a disabled toilet and a disabled parking space is that a parking space is exclusively for use by a disabled person, whereas a toilet has been adapted so that it can be used by a disabled person - though not exclusively so.

The whole arguement re "but what if that means a disabled person has to wait 2 mins til you're finished?" is a rubbish one - I assume that if the toilet was already in use by a disabled person then the subsequent disabled person would also have to wait??

THe vast majority of disabled people don't have continence problems - the vast majority of people with continence problems don't view themselves as disabled.

ccpccp - Good to know you're saving your scorn for my good days, so sorry my disability isn't always apparent enough for you, I should obviously know better that to manage to walk as far as the loan scooters.

I'm suprised at the number of people complaining about P&T spaces, it does bug me if they're actually closer to the store than the disabled spaces but surely it's obvious that little legs struggle to walk as far as full sized ones, not to mention dangers of escorting small children across busy car parks. Also the extra width is necessary to get the car seat in and out without damaging the car next to you. It's not a marketing ploy, it's just common sense.

I admit I will quite shamelessly take a P&T space if there are no disabled spaces left and put my blue badge up anyway, only done it a couple of times but never had a complaint, would probably think twice if it were the last P&T space left though.

As to regulating the size of cars it's an interesting idea but would mess things up for me massively. A full size wheelchair and hoist will take up the entire boot of a people carrier, leaving a serious problem as to where to put the pushchair.

I use the P&C spaces at the supermarket when I don't have children with me, only in the evening though (they should be in bed not out shopping).

Disabled parking story that did piss me off- At the multi-storey in Exeter once, you take a ticket as you go in then find a space, the car park shouldn't let you in if its full. Anyway took my ticket and drove in, past rows and rows of empty disabled spaces up through the car park without a single other space free. Gave up and was driving back down and HAD TO PAY £1.50 to get out of the car park. Nobody was answering the buzzer on the exit barrier so had no choice but to pay, nor did the long line of cars behind me.

Actually, not really about disabled parking I know, but pissed me off anyway.

Parent and child spaces are a marketing ploy, a very successful one however. If they were a anything else all car parks would have them.

As for my idea of regulating the size of cars, I think that a dispensation for those who use a wheelchair or need to carry other equipment for health/mobility reasons would be fair.

Cars are getting bigger for no real reason however. I don't own a car and never have. I spent years riding a motorbike though and the proliferation of huge cars was gradually making it more and more dangerous. They are far less manoverable so slow down the flow of traffic - not just for motorbikes but in general on narrow roads/alleyways. Some of them even cause more damage to other road users/pedestrians when they are involved in accidents.

That is on top of their inability to fit into standard parking spaces.

The world is full of fuckwits and life too short to stress the small stuff

All very well to have smaller cars, but what if you have a large family?

The issue I have is with using a disabled badge to park when the person with the disability isn't even with the driver. This happens frequently with three parents who park outside dcs school - they use gp's badges to park close to the school at pick up and drop off. One of them even boasted to me about it though the other two were a little more coy when asked about it.

Well, personnally I think that having more than two children is irresponsible in modern times. I know I am going to get flamed for this, but heigh ho!

Justabout, one of them uses her FILs, the other two borrowed from gps when they got pregnant and due to new parking regulations outside the school (clamping) have decided to continue using them. They have confided this in me so I am not going to report them as they are my dcs friends parents. It demonstrates that the system allows abuses though.

Riven - yes of course it would, but when there is a huge queue for those 20 toilets and a disabled one sitting empty then I'd use it. (and the irony if everyone thought this way then there'd be a big queue at the disabled one isn't lost on me).

stuck - I think you deserve to get flamed for that comment. What would you have us do with our existing DC? I would not presume to tell another person how to live their life (and that extends to how many DC they decide to have) and I would not accept another person telling me how many DC I should have. However, it's a moot point as they do already exist and therefore I need a car with enough seats to transport them.

On a more lighthearted note - we were trying to find a parking space in town the other day, none free, but lots of disabled ones available. I parked further away. DD1 pipes up "that's why its good when Granny comes, we can park closer to the shops" - Granny has MS and a coveted blue badge