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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

having children she can't afford without thought.

106 replies

rambini · 04/08/2010 00:46

My best friend is 21, she already has one child who is 5, and she recently got together with (another) new bloke. within 2 weeks they were "engaged" and now in week 3 they have "decided to try for a baby". neither of them work, or have any savings. her current child is surprise surprise, supported by the state, as will baby number 2 be if he/she turns up. it is just so frivolous, with no care or thought for the fact that they have not even known each other a month, they have no money, and expect other people to fund their child just so they can play happy families. it really makes me mad, am i being unfair?
thanks x

OP posts:
malteaserpearl · 04/08/2010 00:59

ffs sake yes of course u r!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

JEALOUSY

Original poster
rambini · 04/08/2010 01:12

it isnt jealousy, i would not for one second want to be living in a council house with no money, a 5 year old child i couldnt support, and a constant feeling of sponging off hard working people to support my lifestyle.
it is annoyance that I am one of many people in this country who work hard and pay taxes, and i like the fact our country helps and supports the elderly, the disabled, and people struggling, but it annoys me that it stretches to supporting people who knowingly and willingly get themselves into situations they KNOW they cant afford, just because they also know the government will support them regardless. less money on people like that would mean more money going into the NHS.

OP posts:
Marjee · 04/08/2010 01:16

Yanbu, that kind of irresponsible attitude annoys me too. Theres not much you can do about it though

ShinyAndNew · 04/08/2010 01:17

Can anyone ever truly afford a child?

Lynli · 04/08/2010 01:18

No yanbu. I do think people should at least try to achieve some financial stability before starting a family. I know circumstances can change, but I don't think you should plan a life on benefits.

The most shocking thing is trying to conceive with someone she has only known a few weeks, she can have no idea whether this relationship will last.

ILIVEONBENEFITS · 04/08/2010 01:49

YABU
The welfare state was created so that everyone can have the chance to live a decent life and have a family.We need children to be born and raised otherwise the figures project that as a country we're going to disappear up our own old age pensions.
If they want to have a child let them.Who is to say it wont last or that they won't make brilliant parents.
Many parents who have known each other for a long time make absolutely terrible parents and money doesnt even come into it.Look at the results of this poll amongst a few au pairs.They tell of many parents who cant be arsed so good on these two for being wiling to give it a go.
If the state has to pay to help bring up these children so what? We can afford it and perhaps the child will grow up to be a huge contributor to our society,paying back the investment tenfold....

gtamom · 04/08/2010 01:58

Yanbu. She sounds immature and irresponsible.

Sakura · 04/08/2010 02:38

YABU, but if you don't know why then nothing I write is going to change your opinion.

SkiHorseWonAWean · 04/08/2010 03:48

Yanbu - bludger.

mnistooaddictive · 04/08/2010 03:53

Yanbu you need a strong relationship to survive the pressure that children bring. 3 weeks is not long enough. BTW ILOB the whole point is that as a country we CANT afford it. That is why we are having massive cuts. The welfare state is there to support people who need it but you shouldn't act like it is your right to have as many children as you like for other people to pay for. I am not anti benefits at all but you should at least try to support yourself.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 04/08/2010 03:55

This is your best friend, is it OP? Someone you despise, consider frivolous, a sponger, and wouldn't in a million years want to be like?

Appletrees · 04/08/2010 04:07

"The welfare state was created so that everyone can have the chance to live a decent life and have a family."

Its function is really a principle of insurance aimed at sustaining basic well being. That seems to be slightly different from the way it is being used here.

However, it's hard for people to see outside a particular world when they have known nothing else. It's very tough for people who have such a limited view, and will continue to be so.

TheBossofMe · 04/08/2010 04:20

Depends why they're not working, though, doesn't it.

Can't be arsed to work, train etc - yes, they are being spongers.

Unable to work due to illness, disability, or trying their best to find work in a crippling economic climate that makes it hard to succeed no matter how hard you try - not for you to judge since the system is designed to provide a safety net for those who cannot provide for themselves and their families.

So depends on the circumstances, doesn't it.

SirBoobAlot · 04/08/2010 04:29

Any individual who gets engaged, then starts trying for a baby within a couple of weeks is ridiculous, IMO. Doesn't even matter that they're in a council house and living on benefits. Adds to the impracticality, yes, and shows their naivety and thoughtlessness. Not much you can do except tell her what you think, though...

TheBossofMe · 04/08/2010 04:37

SBAL - yup, that bit of it is madness even if you're living in a mansion on $1m pa.

MojoLost · 04/08/2010 05:38

She sounds so irresponsible, selfish and frankly a little (a lot) naive.
Is she really your best friend? I hope you can open her eyes a little. She is making a big mistake. She is young enough to go and find a job!!! instead of having kids with the first guy she meets.
Actually, I feel sorry for her first child, she is giving him a terrible example of how to live life.

ben5 · 04/08/2010 05:52

yanbu i worked for 9 years before i had ds1. i'm married to to ds's dad. i don't work i'm on a career break while my children are still at home. we aren't entitled to benifits because dh works and i had worked. we are lucky in the fact that we don't need the money but would be nice to of had some return on all the taxes i've paid!!

nancydrewrocked · 04/08/2010 06:00

Iliveonbenefits you see I totally disagree that the welfare state was created so that "everyone can have the chance to have a decent life and a family".

IMO the welfare state was created so that those families that already exist do not slip so far into poverty that children suffer.

Frankly I do think it is totally irresponsible to have a child which you know you personally can't afford. Of course situations change and that is why the welfare state exists. But to actively ttc knowing that you cannot support and have no prospect of supporting that child in the future is selfish.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 04/08/2010 06:07

How do you define "you personally can't afford", though? Frankly, when I was weighing up whether to have a child, I took into account:

Subsidised childcare
Nationalised health/public hospitals (meant cost of birth negligible, also don't need huge savings/v v good private health insurance in case of serous childhood illness like in the States)
Public schooling
Family Tax benefit (Australian sum of money paid to all parents earning under $150K)
Baby bonus (lump sum payment to parents, not means tested)

ALL of those things influenced my decision to have a child, and they all come out of taxes. We like to say this a lot, this idea that you should be able to support your own children, but in reality working middle class parents receive a huge amount of government help in the form of tax breaks, subsidies, and public institutions.

So where is the line? Is it alright to have a child you can only afford with those government benefits, or not? Should I have the available cash for private school, private healthcare, etc.? Or is it only income benefit that's the issue here?

StarExpat · 04/08/2010 06:24

YANBU
And the poster who thinks that people are entitled to live off of benefits without trying to get to a position of supporting themselves because this is "why it exists"...

LadyBiscuit · 04/08/2010 06:41

That is not what the welfare state was designed to do - it was designed to support people in short term need, not be a lifestyle choice.

But funny way to talk about your best friend though

prozacfairy · 04/08/2010 06:47

I don't think YANBU for being annoyed at your "best friend" for being in this situation where she plans to have another baby but can't/wont support it herself, but YABU for judging your so-called best friend like this on a public forum.

SkiHorseWonAWean · 04/08/2010 06:51

This quote taken from the IVF thread sums it up for me:

"Life would be lovely if we could have everything we wanted paid for by someone else wouldn't it."

sapphireblue · 04/08/2010 07:16

The main issue to me isn't that she can't afford it but that she has known this guy 3 weeks and is trying for a baby!! I shall await their appearance on Jeremy Kyle.............

StarExpat · 04/08/2010 07:18

The state where I am from in the US has recently changed their welfare laws so one can only live solely on state support for 5 years (unless disability or extenuating circs like that). During the 5 years people are given support and Advice for finding work. Subsidized childcare centres are also available.
It used to be more kids = more money and was abused hideously and blatantly. Was obvious as neighbourhoods very much more separated there than they are here in the UK.