to be cross with the 32% of the population who think ivf shouldn't be available on the NHS

[tholeon]

I read an article in the paper this morning saying that only 68% of the population think that ivf should be available on the NHS.

I have an ivf DC. He is the best thing that has happened to me. Infertility was the worst. We are lucky in that we could pay for the treatment without bankrupting ourselves. Not lucky in the 'hurrah lets whip £10k out of our back pockets to pay for all these lovely invasive and unpleasent treatments that may not work, while other people just get to have a nice shag' sort of way - but still, relatively so. I know plently people on fertility forums who are unable to afford treatment at all.

Any of the 32% out there? I know money is tight, but infertility is a medical condition, and it causes great heartache and unhappiness in a way that might be hard to understand for those who have not been through it themselves or seen it at first hand. So why do so many people see it as such a low priority?

Emergency care? I'm not saying let's leave people dying on the street. My parents paid taxes for 35 years before moving abroad, my parents are now not entitled to free NHS health care but Jim having arrived 5 minutes ago would. I think unless you've lived here for some time, maybe three years, you should have to pay back your health costs.

Im curious about those saying the NHS cant aford cancer drugs , do you mean new drugs which are not curative and may give a cancer sufferer the chance of a few extra months ? The NHS is basically held to ransom by drug companies ,perhaps this goverment should do what Thailand does and copy the expensive drugs to ensure their people have access to them ?

er, why would you parents be entitled to NHS care when they have chosen to leave the country? And where have they gone? Somewhere with a reciprocal health agreement? Surely under your ideas for those three years you wouldn't be covered by anyone's health care, either new or old country? Then we would have to provide reciprocal agreements for that 3 year period and cost-wise we'd be back to square one (or worse, as a large proportion of those leaving this country are of retirement age).

I'm firmly in the 32% camp.

I would only support IVF on the NHS if the following conditiosn were met:

When all people with diseases such as cancer, MS, etc have fair access to (very expensive) life-saving and life-enhancing drugs. ditto people requiring wheel chairs, artificial limbs, etc.

When NHS staff aren't overstretched and overworked

When cancer survival rates in the UK are closer to being in line with other developed countries.

When NHS hospitals are kept super clean on a regular basis.

When these are in place, then I'd be happy for the NHS to fund IVF.

It looks like I am with most of the other replies on here. Quite frankly I'm surprised that the percentage who think IVF should be available on the NHS is so high.

I know what it is like to be infertile. It took me 17 years to have my daughter, but at no point did I think I was entitled to free IVF treatment.

I know this might upset and offend some people, but I agree that if parenthood isn't meant to be then we should be able to come to terms with it and accept it.

When I was told that it was highly unlikely that I would ever conceive, let alone carry a pregnancy to full term, I saw it as an opportunity to do things that I wouldn't have been able to do if I had children to look after. I take the view that if one door closes another one opens.

So, instead of spending 17 years of my adult life being discontented and unfulfilled, I was happy and free and did what I wanted when I wanted. Falling pregnant at 41 was a shock, but my life changed. It is different now, not better, just different.

TooPrag....I am assuming you don't smoke, don't drink and lead a risk free life?

(...or have just arrived here or need an interpreter).

Fab post Bunbaker. Yours is the kind of attitude which I find truly inspiring.

PosieParker, too funny. why on earth would you assume that?

BunbakerSo, instead of spending 17 years of my adult life being discontented and unfulfilled, I was happy and free and did what I wanted when I wanted. Falling pregnant at 41 was a shock, but my life changed. It is different now, not better, just different.

I couldn't of put it better myself......I too up until 41 had accepted my lot as to be childless, & also just got on with it.......so I DO know what it feels like, I like Bunmaker above chose not to let it consume me ruin my life..........

I had a friend a few years earlier go through IVF, & was angry she couldn't get NHS treatment & had to pay,...... she couldn't understand why I wasn't interested in going that route too......sadly (perhaps) it was unsuccessful for her, but she let it consume her, I had every sympathy for her, but she ruined her life by not accepting her lot as I & others had at the time did..........ironically she died not too long ago from Cancer, (hence why I say "perhaps")

so for the person above (sorry busy page so going cross eyed ) who insists I have an "I'm alright attitude" nothing could be further from the truth....I've been there...dealt with it.....& then just got lucky....& also seen close friends go through it, & NOT deal with it...& ruin her life

& there was no need to raise my own health issues....until Rivens post about her DDs situation, it was not in anyway relevant.....my attitude to free NHS IVF was formed well before I became ill

& yes I do agree there a lots of ways the Government could save money, ......our local Council drive me nuts with there wastage....but I still think there is a long list of areas where that money could be better used, BEFORE free NHS IVF.........& thats not because I don't feel for those of you dealing with infertility, but because I', a realist, & agree with the camp that sees the quality of existing lives, as a bigger priority

though having just got back in from queueing at my Chemist.........I'm sure they could save a fair whack on supporting junkies & winos....though I'm sure thats a whole "n'other debate"

Posieparker - if your parents moved to another EU country then they are entitled to free healthcare there. If they moved outwith the EU then isn't that their choice?

Maybe they are refugees

Joining thread late and only read up to page 3 but I agree with Valhalla and Riven that the NHS has to prioritise.

I feel that we need a national charity to provide assistance to those who require IVF.

capricorn- I worked full time, supporting myself and my son, not all single mums are scroungers, you know.

people may not want to be young single mums but should the state pay for everything we want?

That charity idea is a really good one Serin.

Nice thought, but honestly, how would you fund it?

....again, I wouldn't think it was a great priority for people when choosing a charity.
Most people go for BHF or SCOPE, Oxfam Cancer charities etc.

I'd still like to know how it is NOT a lifestyle choice tbh

I'd support it as a charity - donate my child benefit! I guess it isn't a lifestyle choice because the natural biological state up to a certain age is to be fertile. Therefore if a medical condition prevents that fertility it is in face an illness. Not a life threatening or (physically) painful one but nevertheless an illness.

Apparently the Pope's visit to the UK is costing £82 million. That would pay for a few cycles. And wheelchairs.

I really hate the whole 'go out and live a full life, learn to sky-dive, travel, enjoy your nieces and nephews, be free' kind of attitude attitude that those with children always present as an alternative to infertility. It's so easy to say to other people but is often the most awful thing to hear when you're not able to have children and are still trying to come to terms with it. People seem to expect other people to do what they did.

.. but the majority of infertility is unexplained.
Infertility, in the main, is not an illness, which is currently defined as disease.

I remain unconvinced that the reasons given here for IVF are not lifestyle choices.

It's absolutely understandable that women want/desire children, but it is not a right. You aren't sick because of infertility.

It isn't - about a third is unexplained if I remember correctly. And unexplained normally just means that they haven't identified a reason for it - there is one, but medical science hasn't got there yet.

men want and desire children too, sometimes it is their fertility problem which stops a couple from having children.

I think it must be hard to prioritise who 'deserves' the money more. I dont envy the person who has to decide. With things like cancer it is an easy decision but there are plenty of grey areas.

My 3yo dd has had 5 ear infections in 6months and was refered by our gp to ent department. She has been in great pain, very ill and her speech which was already delayed has been effected dramatically. Consultant says that she needs grommets but that a new system has started where this operation is deemed 'a proceedure of lower clinical prority' and the pct are unwilling to fund it. So we are now going back and forth to the gp so he can say it is an exceptional circumstance and she can have the operation.

It is very hard to draw the line and say who deserves the money more as we all want the proceedures that affect or help us and our loved ones.

sorky - you aren't sick either because of pregnancy but the NHS funds 200,000 abortions every year.

and broodymama - the drugs cost £900 or roundabouts no matter who pays for them. The NHS may get a bulk discount, but their cost is certainly not £65. That sounds more like a per-prescription charge, and prescriptions are heavily subsidised.

"I really hate the whole 'go out and live a full life, learn to sky-dive, travel, enjoy your nieces and nephews, be free' kind of attitude attitude that those with children always present as an alternative to infertility. "

(I think you mean consequence of infertility BTW)

The thing is that if you are infertile and cannot afford/succeed with assisted conception, you will eventually have to come round to that way of thinking. It's one of many inevitable things people have to come to terms with in life. Or else be eaten up with jealousy, regrets and depression. It's hard to hear that when you are in the midst of treatment and friends are popping out babies all around you, but deep down people know that there is a possibility that nothing will work and they will have to get on with a childless life. IME. Quite scary TBH.