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Original poster

to be cross with the 32% of the population who think ivf shouldn't be available on the NHS

505 replies

tholeon · 03/08/2010 19:17

I read an article in the paper this morning saying that only 68% of the population think that ivf should be available on the NHS.

I have an ivf DC. He is the best thing that has happened to me. Infertility was the worst. We are lucky in that we could pay for the treatment without bankrupting ourselves. Not lucky in the 'hurrah lets whip £10k out of our back pockets to pay for all these lovely invasive and unpleasent treatments that may not work, while other people just get to have a nice shag' sort of way - but still, relatively so. I know plently people on fertility forums who are unable to afford treatment at all.

Any of the 32% out there? I know money is tight, but infertility is a medical condition, and it causes great heartache and unhappiness in a way that might be hard to understand for those who have not been through it themselves or seen it at first hand. So why do so many people see it as such a low priority?

OP posts:
Original poster
tholeon · 04/08/2010 13:22

vouvrey - how do you know that most infertility is age related? Please put a web link detailing with the research to show that. Mine certainly wasn't, like a said, I was 29.

And thanks for the jolly thought about my son's middle and old age. Maybe I shouldn't have had him just in case (not..)

Jellybeans I am sorry for your losses.

OP posts:
Original poster
tholeon · 04/08/2010 13:23

eek I am getting emotional - look at all those typos..! Apols.

OP posts:
fruitstick · 04/08/2010 13:24

But theoleon, the NHS is not there to relieve your sadness. Your father was not given treatment to prevent your sadness, he was given treatment because he was dying. Your feelings about that are not the issue.

And to say the stress levels are the same as breast cancer is also not a reason to provide ivf. People are not treated for breast cancer because they are finding it stressful!

MorrisZapp · 04/08/2010 13:24

I have no personal experience but I do know a friend who has had one round of failed IVF (self funded) and who is currently feeling lower then at any time on her infertility journey.

IVF may take away the mental stress of infertility when it is successful, but when it fails, as I understand it does most of the time, it adds yet more stress to an already hideous situation.

So it is not a cure all, and it is not a way of saving the NHS money on mental health services. My friend is in more need now of mental health support having had IVF then she was before. The disapointment she lives with each day is unbearable for her. Not to mention the pressure and stress on her partner who may not have the friendship networks, sympathetic employers etc that an infertile woman might have.

PickleSarnie · 04/08/2010 13:26

Well that's lovely that you "made sure you had your DCs when I was young" vouvrey. Lucky you. Unfortunately not everyone has that choice. Should I have rushed out to procreate with an entirely unsuitable man in my 20s just because I was young and fertile? I didn't meet my OH until I was 32 and, thankfully, we've had no problems conceiving but if I had, would it have been MY fault for not meeting him earlier? It's really not as simple as making choices based on the assumption one can "beat the biological clock" as lovely as that would be.

And to suggest that children born as a result of IVF aren't "natural" or "healthy"?!? Are you a medical professional?! That's an appalling and ridiculous statement to make about the thousands of children born as a result of IVF. Words fail me to be honest.

rockinhippy · 04/08/2010 13:28

I'm not saying that your life should be dictated by mine or anyone elses ethics, just that there are some things you can't expect the state to pay for.....I do know several couples who have gone the IVF route, all privately, some with success others not, the treatments are available, & as they can afford it, than thats their choice..........but not not at the NHS expense.........

yes there are funds wasted in some areas, but there are also a whole load of other areas of research & treatment that are also short of funds, areas that leave people living in physical pain, disability, poor quality of life....not for what they DON"T have, as in the case of a Childless parent, but for what illnesses they DO live with

though I suppose as I am also in the camp that doesn't think anyone should be having Kids until they can afford to bring them up themselves, hence why I left it so late in life, because I couldn't afford to when I was younger, but didn't think it was the states responsibility to fund any Kids I had, then I doubt we will ever all agree on that one anyway....different horses, for different courses, as they say

& no, religion plays no part in my take on this, just common sense....if theres not enough money in the kitty.....then it simply can't be afforded

bedubabe · 04/08/2010 13:29

Child benefit for children abroad? [heads off to see if she can milk the system :O ]

Capricorn - I agree with much of your list (and don't want to get into a discussion on various wars/bank bailouts). I suppose the argument seems to be that the NHS budget should be bigger and we should stop 'wastage'. I was more thinking about how funds should be allocated within the NHS. Ultimately, I think we elect people who are empowered to make decisions on how the money should be split up and they have to make very difficult decisions that not everyone will agree with. If I cared enough I'd get involved in party politics/run for parliament. I don't (and it's not my taxes at the moment anyway!).

On another point, no one can know what decision a person would make until their in that situation. Has anyone on here decided (prior to TTC) that they would not go down the IVF route and then changed their mind in the actual situation? I'm genuinely interested as no one seems to have come out and said so so far.

bedubabe · 04/08/2010 13:31

Now why didn't the work?

sanielle · 04/08/2010 13:34

But it should be the infertile person's choice not to go through with it. (A choice I made faced with infertility. But my choice to make.

I don't want to hear any more Daily Mail crap about people leaving it too late either. I was 24when I started. Check out the website fertiltyfriends.com...

You might be suprised by how many MEN have problems.

loopyloops · 04/08/2010 13:34

you used a capital O

LolaKnickers · 04/08/2010 13:41

picklesarnie - no it wasn't your fault you met your partner until you were 32. Then again, it wasn't every other tax payer inthe country's fault either. Sometimes life just turns out differently for different people. Why is that something we should all pay to remedy?

And as for capricorn's list - accepting for the sake of argument that it's all watse, then the answer is that we don't need to pay as much tax, not that the money should be spent on something equally unnecessary. I feel very sorry for those unable to conceive, but not being able to have a child is not a health problem that we should all pay for(even though it may result from an underlying medical problem).

DuelingFanjo · 04/08/2010 13:42

"If you are in your late 30s you have had 20 years of adulthood to save up for it. Or you could take out a loan and still have 30 working years to pay it off."

did you start saving at 20 incase you needed IVF? If not, why not?

PickleSarnie · 04/08/2010 13:45

I totally agree LolaKnickers, and I'm probably sat on the fence regarding whether or not the NHS should fund IVF or not.

I guess I'm just super sensitive that, throughout all those single years, it was assumed by the general media that I was being selfish and that it was somehow my choice to remain single and that I pretty much deserved to remain childless for leaving it too late due to "choices" I had made when in reality they weren't choices at all.

LolaKnickers · 04/08/2010 13:48

Agree with that pickle - media representation is of some Sex and the City style choice to live a career -driven single life, which is rubbish.

DuelingFanjo · 04/08/2010 13:49

"Has anyone on here decided (prior to TTC) that they would not go down the IVF route and then changed their mind in the actual situation? "

yes, me.
when I didn't want children in my 20s I said I would never go so far as to have IVF and couldn't understand people who would. When I was in my 30s I never said 'oh well, if it doesn't work out there's always IVF'. When I was in my late thirties and trying for a baby I never thought I would 'resort to' IVF. I still thought 3 then 6 then 9 months, then a year into trying that I would get pregnant naturally and so there would be no need to 'go that far'. Then I got referred, had tests, had clomid, had a miscarriage etc... then I was given the option of IVF and incredibly I found myself considering it and then found myself actually doing it.

The only time I really thought I would have IVF was when it was offered to me as an option and I would have done it privately had I not been able to do it on the NHS.

capricorn76 · 04/08/2010 13:50

@Vouvrey, surely if you intentionally became a single mother when you were young, you were either claiming from the state to help pay for this or your parents could afford to support you? Not everyone wants to be a young single mum or has wealthy parents.

sanielle · 04/08/2010 13:53

I have an idea. All of the infertile drains on the economy and all the voluntarliy childless should be able to opt out of paying for everyone else's children's schools and council houses? How would that be?

Effectivly you are all saying that you shouldn't pay for our problem. So why shoudl we pay for yours? nice way to live huh?

StarlightMcKenzie · 04/08/2010 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

LolaKnickers · 04/08/2010 13:57

Agree sanielle - I pay for a private school so would be delighted to keep some of my hard-earned cash and not pay for other kids to go to school. I also own my own home so would be delighted not to have to pay for council houses. Or was that perhaps not what you meant??

We always have to pay for things we don't directly use and that isn't a problem as some things need to be provided in a society. It is clearly beneficial to society that children are educated and the state provides for this. There is not a benefit to society in the infertile being given IVF.

MamaVoo · 04/08/2010 14:00

This is such a difficult one to debate. On the one hand, with a limited budget then of course necessary medical treatment should be the priority. On the other hand I have just spent the morning with a lovely little girl who was the product of her parents' third IVF attempt. I think we should be very grateful that the NHS does make some provision for IVF, but I don't think we should see it as an entitlement.

Broodymomma · 04/08/2010 14:01

I have had 5 cycles of ivf after us being diagnosed as infertile at 29. Yes where I live you get 3 cycles free but as soon as you have one you are right back to the bottom on the ever increasing waiting list, the cut off point is 38 here for funded treatment sonyhe chance of actually getting the 3 cycles are nil. Hence the reason we scrolled and saved for every last cycle we had and have never taken a penny from the Nhs.

Infertility is not life threatening no but it does change your life and trust me your mental state. I honestly feel it should be 1cycle per person and the waiting list should be consistent over the uk not the postcode lottery it is now.

rockinhippy · 04/08/2010 14:01

sanielle Wed 04-Aug-10 13:53:48
I have an idea. All of the infertile drains on the economy and all the voluntarliy childless should be able to opt out of paying for everyone else's children's schools and council houses? How would that be?

Effectivly you are all saying that you shouldn't pay for our problem. So why shoudl we pay for yours? nice way to live huh?

Bollox ...........no-one is paying for my problems either, but I'm not stamping my feet & banging on about it.....it is, what it is, & I deal with it, & don't expect anyone else to do that for me.........

In an ideal world, it would be different....but its not....C'est la vie

DuelingFanjo · 04/08/2010 14:01

I am still intrigued by this idea that people should start saving for IVF in their early 20s incase they discover they have fertility issues later. Would everyone have to do this just incase?

hidingidentity · 04/08/2010 14:02

I'm with DuelingFanjo. When we were blithely setting out to get me pregnant we talked about infertility and decided that we would do anything except donor sperm/eggs or IVF. Then a year later, we had the diagnosis that the only way that we would ever have any chance of children was donor sperm or IVF.

We picked donor sperm, as IVF with ICSI wasn't a good option for us (too little chance that it would work). And it taught us a big lesson about casually assuming that we would have any idea about how someone can feel when we hadn't experienced it ourselves.

A year or so ago (now we have two children), DH and I were chatting about it all, and he said "but we wouldn't have had IVF, would we?" and I just looked at him like this , because I'd bet our bottom dollar that we would have.

Broodymomma · 04/08/2010 14:02

As for the poster who declared ivf children are not meant to be come and spend time with my 3 year old son and say that!