To work from home is of benefit to the employee and the employer loses out

[poppincandy]

Maybe I just have the wrong RL friends but all of my friends who have the opportunity to work from home with their very well paid jobs take complete advantage of it.

They go off to the gym, get their hair done, go out for afternoon tea, collect their dc from school (therefore have the children at home from 3pm), take children off to activites, etc.

To do their job they have to always be contactable by their devices, but I'm sure the jobs would be more efficient if they were in the actual office. All of these friends have battled to get working from home introduced in their companies, and I can't help but feel that once companies cotton on to what is happening the opportunity will decrease not increase.

So AIBU that if you are working from home, you should actually be working from home? Or am I just jealous that they get to do all these things, whilst being paid fantastic hourly rates to do them?

I work from home (own business so the only person I piss around is myself). I do like the flexibility it gives - indeed that's why I do it, severely disabled child, no childcare, I can be here when he gets home.

However, I often have to work until midnight to make up for the time I've spent in the day providing childcare.

If you are in the type of job where you get paid per project then I can't see that it'll make any difference - and an employer surely knows how much work they expect in what timescale.

YAB a bit U, I think it depends on the job. Mine doesn't lend itself to working from home at all. Some people work from home successfully and meet project deadlines etc.

I occasionally work from home when I really need to concentrate on something. Yes, I'll put the washing on and maybe do some other houseworky bits, but I normally work longer hours as I'll start earlier and work later. My employer actually gets more out of me.

It sounds like you just know some very cheeky people! And it's people abusing flexible working like this which can make it harder for less cheeky people to have homeworking requests approved.

My employer wins.
The piss-takers tend to be in the office so they can pretend they're working while chatting on IM to their mates/having coffee breaks etc.

However by enabling most people to work from home if they want, they've cut down to 80% desk space so saving 20% of rent and running-building costs.
When I've been unable to commute due to medical reasons, I've been able frequently to still work, rather than be off sick.
Staff who have relocated have been able to keep their jobs so we keep their expertise. It also makes it feasible to keep staff on a 1-day-a-week level who we would lose otherwise.
Staff can work around hospital and other appts more easily rather than having to take extra time off to get to and from work.
Good staff in stressful circs can keep their jobs, which reduces unemployment claims etc (OK other people are still unemployed)
People learn how to manage staff/work with people who aren't physically present, which is useful when you end up with a team at the other end of the country/overseas and thus reduces travel costs.

It all boils down to 'is the work getting done' - if it is, to appropriate standard, then everything else should be irrelevant.

I worked from home this morning on one contract, am having a quick bite to eat, will pop out to Sainsburys for a couple of things and will be back to work on another contract before I get dinner on and pick up DC3 from nursery. Going to the gym/nice shops/hairdresser is not something I can relate to - if I'm working from home I'm always contactable from home in case I need to answer a query about anything I'm working on.

I work from home and after a recent spell of eighty hour weeks I can tell you now I do not work less hard then if in the office. I work long days, and yes I do get the flexibility to pick up my kids or put the dishwasher on but I also manage huge projects, am always contactable and never off duty. I acheive major results for my company and am bloody grateful for my bosses proactive approach to my work or with two kids I wouldnt work at all. YABU and your emphasis on their HEAVILY PAID nature suggests a certain amount of jealousy. Nine times out of ten people who are well paid and given flexibility like this have had to work damned hard over the years to acheive it - I worked long days and studied for a degree in the evening to get to where I am so if I occasionally feel like going to the gym of a lunch time so be it. I am a damn site more productive now then I was four years ago when I lost a job after being called out of the office for the umpteenth time to deal with a poorly child.

Also very interestingly given mumsnets recent focus on technology jobs for girls, I work in technology and so do most of the people I know who work flexi like this - another bonus for being a girl in a mans industry :)

I work from home one day a week and to outsiders it probably looks like I'm taking the mickey. But what they don't realise is that I do one evening meeting a week, on Mon for example I worked from 9am to 10pm. So I will take time on my WFH day to have my hair done or a bikini wax. I feel I'm allowed to. And I drop off and pick up my children from school. I probably do two hours less on the WFH day, but I do well over two hours extra a week so it evens out over the course of the week. I think my employer wins because I'm very committed and know how lucky I am to have this perk and I'm also much more flexible with my evenings and weekends as I know I can get the time back.

Miniwedge, TrillianAstra, prettyfly1 and all who agree with them:

Almost all working environments need some people physically present throughout usual office hours and many need them at other hours too ? 24/7 in some cases.

If you are in one of those environments you have to take your share of the presence at work ? and the difficult hours ? whatever the nature of your personal life.

Even if it might suit your employer not to insist on that because you are so wonderful and irreplaceable: you and s/he have no business expecting others to take an unfair share of the less attractive side of the work. And that is true even of others who have no dependents to worry about.

All this is obvious or ought to be obvious but miniwedge stresses her childcare, Trillian is thinking of when she has DCs, and prettyfly1 talks of being a ?girl? (that?s her choice of word) in a man?s industry. Men without DCs have as much right to flexibility and WFH as anybody else!

Is people on here suggesting they don't, Andrew? Sorry if I've missed those posts.

Maisie the three whom I mentioned all seem to be thinking of WFH as a benefit meant for people, especially women, with childcare. I'm making the point that they have to take their share of the days in the office - and possibly the weekends and the nights - while thebloke with no kids works from home or even takes his share of the weekends off.

There are - I have experience here - women (and some but far fewer men) who think that the world revolves round their childcare issues, their visits to the school, their children in the nativity play, you name it, and don't grasp that if it's their turn to work that evening or that weekend nobody has to swap with them.

Andrew - many people on here are also talking about their DHs WFH. Others are talking about whole companies with a WFH policy available to all workers. Yes, many with children do WFH from time to time and maybe negotiate as part of their return to work, but no-one is saying that it is (or should be) exclusively women.

In addition, many of the working environments which require a physical presence, such as say, hospitals, schools, care homes, shops are overwhelming staffed by women.

Naturally there are lots of women with children on this post, some of whom work or have worked. This is Mumsnet.

Andrew then those women lack respect for their colleagues. That has nothing to do with parenthood.

I would strongly support (and frequently try to persuade my make colleagues) more men (with or without children) taking advantage of whatever flexible working arrangements may be suitable for their job. Anything to remove the stigma of part-time working somehow being second best.

tablefor3 We don't disagree. My DS was small at a time when mothers got little consideration and fathers none at all!

YABU. I used to work from home from time to time - usually when I needed to focus on a sustained piece of work without distractions - and I didn't do any of the things you describe in the OP. My employer got better work, I got to do the work in conditions that suited me, everyone was happy. Most of my colleagues did the same: some had a regular home-working day and others did it more irregularly. Remote working was a huge advantage for the employer as well, because in the last couple of winters when all the trains etc stopped running because of the snow, people could still work, whereas in a conventional office nothing would have got done for a couple of days because no-one would have been able to get there.

Having said that, we were all judged on the quality of the work we got done, not on how many hours we spent at our desks. If you worked in a place that measured how hard you were working by how long you were physically in the place, home working would be a huge disadvantage to you as an employee because it would be assumed you were slacking. I've worked somewhere like that too.

Andrew, at my work we have a lot of people who take advantage of flexible working requests leading up to retirement and if they are helping to look after elderly/ill relatives. Some also work compacted hours so that they can carry on with sporting or other outside interests.

I think that's great. Flexible working isn't just for parents (Dads too of course!). But you have to appreciate that as this is Mumsnet you're going to get a lot of working women talking from a personal perspective.

YABU in my very humble opinion.

Working from home can be more efficient. I know that in my last job (pre-children) that much of my day in the office was spent waiting for replies to emails, or waiting for the post, or waiting to get to the photocopier, killing time on various websites, etc., and it was considered quite a responsible role worthy of full time hours, and tbh I needed those full time hours IN the office because I had to share space/equipment/people.

I could have done my job, gone to the gym and gone shopping had I worked from home, and my productivity would have been increased, because I LOATHE open plan stinky offices where no one is happy.

My friend works from home mostly (apart from important meetings all over the country) and is much more productive. She may well go to the gym or have a long lunch, but she often does a lot of working into the night after the children are in bed... swings and roundabouts.

It will be a happy day for me if I get a job that doesn't require me to sit in an open plan office (I don't have the experience or qualifications for many jobs that deserve a private office!).

iwork from home, usually do 9-3 whilekids at school then about 8-10/11 when they in bed so 8/9hr days, or on days when im really busy i only stop to take/get kids from school and throw food at them (unless dp is home early enough to cook for them) and then crawl into bed at 2am yawn but such is life, and i don't have to pay anyone for childcare, unfortunately sometimes they get babysat by the tv but it's not very often.

so i think YABU as most of those who work from home tend to work quite hard :)

MammyT, this thread is a year and a bit old [hconfused]. Always wonder how people come across old stuff like this and why they reply when presumably the conundrum has been rectified long ago!

I work in IT, and WFH full time. I don't actually have an office, other than the one in my house - cheaper for the company not to pay for space for me.

I start early, and often work in the evenings. I also go upstairs for a sleep sometimes in the afternoon, or pick DS up from school - it's all swings and roundabouts.

The key is that the work is delivered - not that I'm sitting at my laptop from 9-5.

I work significantly longer hours from home, because you never walk away from it properly. It's a total win for my management - if I had to go into an office, I would not put in the hours, or the level of concentration that I can give from home.

Andrew with the greatest of respect what on earth are you chattering on about. I EARNED my way to being senior management on the grounds of really strong communication skills and never shying away from working hard - I can tell you now that if I worked in an office you wouldnt be able to find me there at eleven/twelve at night as I frequently do now because my children would be in the care of social services. I commit as much as any teammember, male or female just from a different location, which happens to be in my house and frankly the fact that I am female is surplus to the cause - my point about being a girl in a mans industry was to support the cause encouraging young women to look at a career in technology as it offers possibilities to more easily work from home, thus allowing balance to career and family more easily. Chip on shoulder much?

No chip at all; like I say, experience. If your job was one whch required the midnight candle on the premises and you were one of a team you'd have to take your share - and manage. That's all I said. And I stand by it.

Balancing career and family is fine - so is balancing career and other sorts of private life!

"they do not lose working time for child sickness, appointments, travel issues etc"

working from home means working not taking care of children, going to appointments etc.

OP you know some very dishonest people.

I used to work from home. At the start I was very motivated and got lots done. Then I slipped into laziness and realised that going into an office gave me a routine, a reason to get up at a certain time, a reason to get dressed smartly etc etc. I ended up getting up at 9, "working" in my pj's until midday and feeling guilty everytime my phone rang because I felt like I wasn't doing my job. In actual fact I did my job ok, but it kind of destroyed my soul!!! I think you have to be a very very motivated person and really love your job to work from home 9-5 and not get distracted with the hoovering, nipping to tescos, watching loose women etc etc I think there are probably a lot of people like me out there ;-)

YABU, when I work from home I always feel ultra paranoid that my boss thinks I'm slacking so end up getting loads done! It allows me to start earlier and finish later than I could if going into the office.

I do put washing on sometimes, but that takes no more time than making a cup of tea or having a chat at work.

I did work from home once when DS (4yo) was sick. I had actually asked to take the day as a holiday if DS was still too sick to go to nursery. I emailed my boss first thing to say I was going to take the day as a holiday and saw an urgent email and ended up working all day while DS lay on the sofa watching DVDs.

It ended up working better for all as my boss got the work done otherwise it would have been the following week it was done, and I didn't end up having to take a holiday to look after sick DS. Win, win.