i cant help it that she cant have children of her own why punish me and my children tho?

[DoesMyHairyBigToeOffendYou]

my SIL cant have any children and i feel so gutted for her, but i had a DS 3 years ago and she adores him and spoils him rotten! i then had my DD 17 weeks ago and DPs family have ignored us ever since! my SIL hardly ever visits now and my DS doesnt understand why is Auntie has kept away, i understand totally that it must be very hard for her, so i dont blame her for keeping her distance a bit, but DPs mum has phoned us being really abusive and saying we had one child isnt that enough? why did we have to have another one to rub it SIL face? dont we realise how lucky we were to have a DS etc, she has only ever seen DD (her only grandaughter) twice since she was born and that was in the first 3 weeks, but she is also making DS suffer too now! (her only grandson)

i cant help it that SIL cant have children of her own but do i really have to feel guilty of having my children myself? SIL doesnt blame us, so why does MIL? anyone reckon SIL is saying things behind my back?

Maybe sil dosent want children ??

My sis can't have children either and is more than happy to stay that way.

Don't feel sad, just remeber there is ALWAYS more going on than is being shared. Infertility brings a huge planeload of emotional baggage.. and nobody wants to share there dealings with IVF or fertility drugs with their happily pregnant SIL. Trust me.

Just keep it in mind and remeber to be kind to her and to tell you MIL to fuck off.

i think im just trying to say his family is weird and has funny ways, thank heavens DP isnt like them.

i ve more or less always had a good relationship with my SIL thats why i think its so upset me as it was unexpected but anyways the prob is actually with MIL the total and utter cown

I was pg and lost the baby at 9 weeks; and my due date was the same date as the birthday of my DNiece.

My SIL was absolutely wonderful and totally understood that I struggled a bit at first to see my niece. I saw her when she was a month old, fell head over heels in love with her, and her sister too, now.

But my SIL is very understanding and lovely, she made it easy for me to be around my nieces and not worry about sobbing and blubbing and generally being a bit overemotional. Your attitude and approach sounds a bit less sympathetic to me. I wonder whether your SIL (and maybe your MIL) is picking up on your attitude towards her. Perhaps you have inadvertantly been rather unsensitive around her.

Also I think PF has an excellent point. She may be undergoing IVF/ have had an unsuccessful IVF cycle and understandably not wanting to share that with you.

That's out of order.

Read 'The Hollow Heart' by Martina Devlin. I thought it would be like her book about the titanic, but I ended up reading it anyway. She went a bit crazy for five years but luckily she put herself back on track eventually.

Women: meet your partner's mother early, as if you have children, this is what you will need to live up to.

Men: meet your partner's mother early, because this is what your partner will turn into in thirty years' time.

I think bighairytoes IVF comment has been picked up and run with here. She doesn't come across as unsympatheic in any of her other posts.

There is no reason her SIL is perfect just because she can't have children iyswim.

If i were you i'd arrange to meet SIL, child free and discuss your mIL. Then you will know if she is driving the wedge between you.

believe me i have always been sympathetic to her honestly i have, she is god mother to DS and was asked to be god mother before he was even born, i always try to include her in things etc from going out with the girls to ordering a takeaway etc whilst the boys go down the local etc i really have tried thats why all this has upset me, and this is going to come out totally the wrong way but if she was having/had IVF it would have been non stop shoved down everyones throat, and i dont mean that nastily at all its just the way his family are, and its honestly what they would do. i wouldnt mind id be happy for them honestly, i jsut wish i could ask SIL if she knows wat MIL has been saying.

i have to go for a bit but thanx for the advice everyone, and sorry if i offended any one xx

Let me explain how it feels (and the "oh well she can have IVF" line is hideously insulting to anyone who's infertile, as is the "well you can always adopt").

I can explain vividly how it feels - my SiL announced her pregnancy on Sunday. I'm infertile it appears (over three years of trying, one miscarriage - cannot afford IVF or fertility treatment and don't meet NHS guidelines). It feels like you've been kicked in the gut, and then someone's plunged their fist through your ribcage and started ripping out your entrails before tearing your heart in two in front of you. Society expects a certain response - and yet emotionally, you're in no way placed to give that response (it is a very very special, strong infertile woman who can be a doting auntie - I'm not that strong, and I bet even the strong ones sob in the car on the way home).

I've cut myself away completely from OH's family following the news - I've had to for my own sanity and self-preservation. If you're infertile - reminders of it are absolutely everywhere - TV, radio, newspapers (pretty much every week the DM runs an article aobut how childless women are selfish hedonistc beasts). You go out of your house - you're confronted with happy families - it's all a constant reminder of the world you'll never ever get to walk in, a reminder that you matter less in the world - and yes, there's jealousy in there, along with anger, rage, grief... none of these are very attractive emotions and, because inside you're basically a decent person, you get more and more angry at yourself and your body failing you - because you're thinking such dark, bitter thoughts.

That's what it's like every day (counselling doesn't help before anyone throws that one in - cheap wine is more use :D )... yet you can mentally shove it aside somewhat and function... until the pregnancy announcements start. Each one brings it all bubbling to the fore again (kind of like some ancient sealed evil that they never do the job of sealing it up properly in the movies) - you have to smile, say the right things and then go hide in the loos to cry and deal with your own grief. Then, when you've dealt with that - the baby comes along and rakes it all back up again. Add in the fact of it being a relative, and them giving parents a grandchild that YOU can't give them - and it's soul destroying to go through.

Every time there's an announcement you get torn apart by grief again and go through all the stages of grieving for the child you can't have, for the future you'll never see, for the grandchildren you won't have, that you'll never see your partner play with his son or daughter - and you go through it every single time... sometimes, if you're still trying, you go through it on a minor level every single month.

It's truly a pain that you will never have to endure - one you can't comprehend in how badly in seeps into and corrodes your life and relationship. You sitting there making comments aobut "she can just have IVF"... it's no panacea, it's hideously expensive, you don't know that she's not been through it already, or isn't suitable - it could be the quality of her eggs that are the problem, she could have been having repeated miscarriages and be struggling to actually carry a child to term - there are so many factors involved and you end up learning so much more than you ever thought you'd need to know about your internal plumbing... to fob her off with the IVF line - I'd have exploded on you at that point, she's been stronger than me that she's dealt with you having a son (I'd bet the girl's been the killer part of this to be honest).

You won't understand - I'll be jumped on and dismissed as the freak or abnormal, last time someone posted that they were dreading a family Christmas because of infertility/miscarriage/pregnant relation - they were called selfish and made out to be a hideous person on here... I'm not abnormal, go onto any long-term infertility forum on the internet (I'm not talking about "we've been trying for a baby for 2 months zomg nothing's happened yet", I'm talking about the true, long-term infertiles, the ones who've had the probes and needles shoved everywhere) and you'll find the same story every single time.

I've typed all that - but I doubt you'll understand it. You just see someone being "jealous" and "selfish".

EmptyShell, that was a very moving ad heartfelt post,and I offer you allmy sympathy and cheap wine, but is it not painful going on a parenting website?
Would you really suggest though that others avoid conceiving to spare your feelings, as OP's MIL has?

OP,your MIL sounds 'orrid.

Great post emptyshell. And completely true to my own experience. I am truly sorry you are going through it.

I hang around in the conception forum, just come in here when I'm bored and the teacher bashing's in full swing (gotta fight for my team). On something like this, when the majority cannot possibly understand though - yes I speak out and chip in.

Conception's one of the few places where we can have a perfectly sane and rational discussion about the quality of our cervical secretions with complete strangers.

Might be worth googling up the Empty Arms video - I think it's on a site called tearsandhope but I'm not going to google it myself at the moment as it's somewhat triggering... walk a few minutes in our shoes.

Just to say to the OP that I feel like I was a bit rude to you earlier and I apologise.

Infertility is just something people can't understand unless they have been there which is understandable and i really wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I thik your MIL is being a bit of a cow though I am guessing she is having to support your SIL a lot and so has behaved irrationally as a result.

I had a miscarriage (first pregnancy) many years ago which resulted in several months of unsuccessful treatment, culminating in having a hysterectomy. The operation was performed on the same day that was my predicted due date had I not miscarried. And my best friend had her first baby two weeks before my op (we had announced our much-wanted pregnancies at the same time.)

It wasn't an easy time, but DH and I got through it with the help and support of family and friends. Friends with DC often weren't sure how to react, and they took their lead from how DH and I reacted to them and their DC. We love kids, have loads of godchildren and an adorable niece and nephew; and I will push people aside in order to cuddle a newborn

A friend's mother once tried to take another friend's baby off me that I was cuddling because "she was sure it was upsetting me." WTF. I think sometimes mums and MILs think they are doing the right thing when often they are making things worse. I was blessed with a lovely MIL, but yours sounds like a bitch challenge

OP - is there any way you can talk to your SIL about her not coming to see you and your family in a caring, unconfrontational way? If she says that she doesn't want to visit because she can't cope with seeing the DC then gently tell her that the door is always open to her and let that be that. Take your lead from her, don't judge her, and don't listen to the MIL.

Emptyshell I am so sorry for what you are going through right now. Due to medical problems my situation was very much a fait accompli, no false dawns or crushed hopes. The one thing I would say to you is to talk to people - friends and family if you can, or a counsellor if you would rather talk to a stranger.

You have to find ways of dealing with it, because everywhere you go you are, as you say, surrounded by happy families and pregnant women. I don't envy them their happiness. I have just learned to find my happiness and fulfilment in a different way.

I looked at that Empty Arms video, emptyshell thanks for mentioning that. It was a beautiful song, beautiful images and gave me some idea how infertile people feel.

OP - YANBU, you're just living your life with your DS and new DD. I do think your SIL must be hurting a lot and that's to be expected if she wants children but cannot have them.

However, your MIL (as someone who has had children) shouldn't be so mean to you and should mind her own business. It's sad that she isn't in your DCs lives at the minute, but her attitude is not something they need around them.

It is a taboo subject of sorts. I had my 1st DC almost 6 months ago. I felt that around certain people I couldn't show my happiness as they struggled with infertility or their husbands didn't want children.

It's hard for you to understand how your SIL feels, and being sensitive to her feelings is important. But to suggest you should have stopped at one child? Your MIL is BU.

Emptyshell well done for posting that. I'm undergoing fertility treatment at the moment, and also had a miscarriage at 12 weeks. I'm not proud at some of the feelings I've had when seeing pregnant women/happy families/babies/constant adverts on telly for baby related things, but what can you do? You can't control the way you feel. Obviously I wouldn't be negative to the pregnant person/baby themselves as it's not their fault, and most people have been very supportive. All you can do is to protect yourself the best you can, because frankly the alternative some days is to be institutionalised. Good luck in your struggle through all this, I hope you find peace whatever the outcome.

OP, it could be in your SIL's case that maybe she would be happy to spend the money on IVF but her dh would rather not do without his holidays?

In any case, your MIL is a loon! You cannot put your life on hold until your SIL has a baby and of course you should have as many children as you want and can afford!

Emptyshell, brilliant post! I really hope you achieve your dream.

but DPs mum has phoned us being really abusive and saying we had one child isnt that enough?

erm, i really think you may have had other things in mind than abusing your SIL by having another child! Mental.

Is this SIL Mil's daughter? I expect she feels very bad for her being childless and even takes it on as her own problem.

t is very hard for (unwillingly) childless women to be nice to women with kids but I hope she comes round and sees your kids soon so she doesn't miss out on being a wonderful Aunty. Would you approach her saying sth like 'oh, DS is missing you' and stressing how important you think extended family is to a kid? Assuming SIL has not actually said anything negative to you directly.

As someone who has gone through infertility (my first is now due in Dec)I totally understand what Emptyshell has said. Infertility takes over your life and its so tiring having to put in an Oscar worthy performance and look like you're overjoyed everytime someone else has a baby or having to bite your tongue when some says things like 'oops I accidentely got pregnant again, I must be so fertile!' etc

There was a long period when I couldn't really find joy in anything and I think I had undiagnosed depression. I never hated anyone because they had what I couldn't but I was in a very lonely place and everywhere I turned there were reminders of what I didn't/possibly could never have. In every mag/newspaper some celeb is practically given a medal for getting pregnant. My DH and I had our biggest rows during this period. I was so angry that I was saddled with my evil body. I was sick of the hospital visits, the ops, the needles, the drugs, people saying that if I stopped thinking about it or stopped trying so hard it would just happen. In fact I'm wound up now just remembering that last part.

Give your SIL some time, she needs to get over the latest kick in the guts, the fresh grief for that is what it is. I grieved everytime my period came. She deserves her holidays as infertility is mentally exhausting.

My own previous infertility means that I am very careful how I talk about my pregnancy in RL as I have friends in my previous position so no Facebook updates discussing my pregnancy, pictures of my bump online, carrying my scan pics everywhere to show people. I'm excited that I'm pregnant but I'm very conscious of how others feel. I don't think that would've been the case if I had fallen pregnant easily.

I also used to frequent the Conception board and was on the TTC group thread quite often. I originally planned to continue posting there to give support etc but I decided against it as I didn't want to come across as smug to those that were still trying.

Perhaps your MIL sees what her own daughter will never have & can´t deal with it herself.

I´m sure most mothers feel closer to their daughters children, so she´s perhaps grieving for that relationship as well.

HairyBigToe, I can totally see your POV in this. My in-laws were all pretty strange when DH and I had our DD. SIL has no children but has never sought advice on infertility - long story short she expects its her husband that has the problems. However, when we first found out we were expecting I was trying to preserve her feelings but she did not speak to us throughout the whole pregnancy, MIL then turned and didnt speak. I completely understood and felt guilty for having a baby, even though id had fertility issues of my own previously.

MIL and SIL both came to visit upon the birth and were great, but we found out from MIL that SIL was being pretty two faced and said we only "had a baby to get a council house" which we didnt - we private rent. SIL made lots of jibes behind our back that were uncalled for.

But I still gave her the benefit of the doubt and excused it as just being upset about the baby. I've been very understanding throughout the whole thing (our DD is now 2), it must be very hard for her but i definitely think YANBU, you shouldnt be made to feel guilty for being happy with your fammily