To have neat flipped?

[Treetrunkthighs]

Have to be quick - snuck to toilets!

Out with dh and mil. On way to town we sat opposite 2 girls, about 15/16 years old. One in. Very short skirt flashing sensible underwear, but flashing nonetheless.

Few wines later. Mil says, when these girls are mentioned, "is it any wonder?". I ask her to clarify. She mentions the words 'rape' and 'asking for it'.

I flipped.

Was I being unreasonable and a bit pissed?

When you say you flipped - what did you say exactly?

Did you tell her that no-one deserves to be raped .

I was raped as a teenager, but I didn't actually realise it until a few years later as I thought perhaps I had been leading the person on.

It makes me sad now to think that I never reported it.

No, you weren't BU. Had just this conversation with DD1 (15) last night, saying that I'm enfuriated and exasperated that a girl/woman should be able to walk through Brixton at 3am in a short skirt and high heels without fear or harm but unfortunately this isn't the case and common sense should be exercised.

I emphasised that NO female is "asking for it" despite the difference between the ideal and the reality.

Your MIL's views are appalling but sadly not unusual. Good for you for challenging her!

YWNBU

Sadly it is how some people think... unfortunately I don't think it will die out with that generation either as I have heard much younger people saying it.

It's a deplorable attitude.

Pioneer - sorry to hear it

Sexual Assault Prevention Tips Guaranteed to Work!

1. Don?t put drugs in people?s drinks in order to control their behavior.

1. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!

1. If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!

1. NEVER open an unlocked door or window uninvited.

1. If you are in an elevator and someone else gets in, DON?T ASSAULT THEM!

1. Remember, people go to laundry to do their laundry, do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.

1. USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If you are not able to stop yourself from assaulting people, ask a friend to stay with you while you are in public.

1. Always be honest with people! Don?t pretend to be a caring friend in order to gain the trust of someone you want to assault. Consider telling them you plan to assault them. If you don?t communicate your intentions, the other person may take that as a sign that you do not plan to rape them.

1. Don?t forget: you can?t have sex with someone unless they are awake!

10. Carry a whistle! If you are worried you might assault someone ?on accident? you can hand it to the person you are with, so they can blow it if you do.

And, ALWAYS REMEMBER: if you didn?t ask permission and then respect the answer the first time, you are committing a crime- no matter how ?into it? others appear to be.

Thank you - I was a bit pissed and soooo mad with her.

I didn't put up a very good challenge to be honest - I was so utterly appalled at what she said that my heart was pounding so hard and fast I couldn't think straight let alone speak.

Thankfully DH waded in and said a bit of what I wanted to say which was good enough. MIL was quite drunk so most of it will have gone over her head but if I've made her stop and think for a second then I'm happy with that.

I'm finding myself challenging her views a fair bit recently - my elder DD is to be spending a day or two here and there over the holidays with her. I have realised that whilst I may have let things go in the past I will not tolerate her racism for example any more and have pulled her up for making racist comments in conversation with DD. It's not on.

Sorry, rant over

I know it's a bit of a generalisation, but I think it's quite an ignorant generation.

My MIL and FIL, and even my own mother who is a bit younger than them, all come out with the most ludicrous racist and sexist comments, and most of the time I don't say anything as I really don't want to get into an argument.

But if it starts to get said in front of DS then I am afraid I will have to step in.

I do sometimes say things like "But it doesn't make them a bad person, just because they're gay/black etc" but it does seem to go in one ear and out the other.

My mum is quite an intelligent person as well - I just think a lot of it has rubbed off from her husband .

yanbu

she needs to see this

LOL colditz sounds so simple doesn't it? Point 8 made me giggle at my desk like a loon.
However, it is so serious and wrong that people think girls 'ask for it' I'd love people to hand out your points on a card to teenage boys in their PSE classes, they'd laugh but they might also think.

And Pioneer - I am sorry to hear that.

Me too. Was on holiday, 17, passed out drunk in my tent. Came to at some point during the ordeal - enough to know what had gone on when I woke up the next morning. We were in the France and were going home that morning. Felt I couldn't do anything or report anything to anyone. So I didn't.

I think my physical reaction to MIL's comments last night have showed me that 'it' isn't as dormant as I thought.

Just a quick disclaimer: I'm not saying all people of that age are like that - otherwise I realise I would be as bad as them! Just quite a few people in the 50+ age bracket that I have come across!

colditz - brilliant!

Love that, colditz.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal too Treetrunkthighs . Similar sort of thing with me - I had met someone at a club, but wasn't really that interested. Somehow he ended up coming back to my flat with a group of people. The last thing I can remember was being in my bedroom with him and I was trying to push him off me. After that I cannot remember anything until about 4am when I went to the toilet and was bleeding quite a lot .
I wasn't that drunk, so I think he drugged me somehow.
What is so sad is that it took me years to realise what had actually happened as I was naive and I thought for a long time "Oh isn't it funny that I passed out when I hadn't had that much to drink - what a lightweight!"
I got pregnant and contracted Chlamydia as a result - had a termination and then sank into a deep depression, causing me to leave university.
Honestly the ramifications of one night......

Treetrunkthighs and Pioneer - I think that assaults of this kind are way more common than we like to think about. But again so many girls / teens blame themselves and so it goes un reported and unpunished.

This kind of predatory attutide towards women makes my blood boil, and I am not usually the blood boiling type!

Both my husband and my best mate both say that they wouldn't have sex with a drunk women in case she regretted it the next day. And I have been that drunk women several times, pawing at them pointlessly, so I know that they stick to it.

I wish I had sons so I could teach them how to be aware... Does that make sense?

Quite, Nemofish.

It makes my blood boil too.

I am going to make a point of educating my son on this when he gets older, as I think peer pressure can also be a huge factor in this sort of behaviour.

Colditz, love it, so true. remember having heated discussion with some friend of friend (male) who said things would be simpler if women just didn't go out alone at night. Uh no, things would be simpler if men didn't choose to attack women alone at night, during day, at any time really.
'True' says he ' but nor really realistic to expect men to stay inside' No, of course not, but it is to expect women to???
Just don't get the logic.