Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think 'outstanding' schools should be norm?

54 replies

Queenbuzz · 24/07/2010 07:07

My ds has a place at an ofsted rated outstanding primary and I am elated, why? because I sent my my other older dc to the local primary and now want to pull them out because their education is blighted by seriously disruptive boys in their classes.

The local school is tiny and has done well with SN children but now people with undiagnosed disruptive dc have brought theirs too, the teachers were good but are now overwhelmed and all the bright dc have left or are leaving or are ignored in class due to the time and resources devoted to managing the troubled ones.

OMG I feel sorry for those dc who are left.

OP posts:
tokyonambu · 25/07/2010 12:53

picc, it's all incredibly difficult.

My parents had working class backgrounds (one's father was a bus driver, the other's a communist warehouseman whose CV was complicated by having been a political conscientious objector on WW1). They went to grammar schools under the 44 act and then a redbrick. So they are the winners of selection. The 11+ was abolished in Birmingham two years ahead of me and they sent me to a local comp, rather than the various local residual grammars. The middle-classes were so glad to see the back of the 11+ that my parents' decision was common, and I don't think I'd have done any better anywhere else: I too went to a good redbrick.

But the grammar schools were colonised by the middle-classes, with selected others allowed in on sufferance. The system was all about identifying talent and moving it into universities, which sounds terribly egalitarian, but delivered nothing to those that didn't get into university. And a marxist analysis would be that the effect of the 1950s education system was to remove working class children, who might have presented a challenge to the class system, and buy them off with middle-class jobs that neutered their ability to improve the interests of their class. You may laugh, but a variation of that argument is sometimes used to justify not encouraging bright children to apply to elite universities. The problem with meritocracies is that they quietly ignore the effect of those who don't have the means to achieve in the competition.

But the middle-classes keeping the aspiration in the comprehensives relies on a certain anti-grammar solidarity. Once a few of them defect (to use the language of the prisoners' dilemma) everyone has to follow. Now, the middle classes are less likely to be present in the local comp for reasons of social conscience (they might be at primary, which is less stratified) and more likely to either colonise selected schools which they bend to their will, or legacy free grammars, or independent schools.

And every proposed solution fails. One that had some popularity on the left was to tie places at elite universities to deprived schools, so that it was much, much easier to get in than from elite schools. Sounds good? OK, I'll enrol my child at a school in special measures, where they dutifully go from 9 to 3.30 with a lot of time off sick, but effectively home school them. During the swine flu thing we and our neighbours half seriously planned a school for in case there was a major closure; we'd have had profs or senior professionals for every subject, plus a booker prize winner (someone's father) running creative writing. All that, and the easier admission: great!

Proposals to tax private education fail, because it has no effect on its affordability to the genuinely affluent but cripples those who are struggling to do what they see as the best for their children. Systems in which children apply for some benefit (scholarships, extra tuition) fail because middle-class parents know how to game the system and dutifully fill the forms in. And so on, and so on.

tokyonambu · 25/07/2010 12:54

I thought compulsory science was only a single GCSE, which usually means you can't do an A level in a single subject?

TheFallenMadonna · 25/07/2010 15:38

I don't know any school that only offers a single award for GCSE. It would play merry hell with their results for a start, as it's the 2 GCSEs or equivalent that's looked at. Core and Addtional Science (2 GCSEs) are an acceptable basis for an A level in Science. We require a B in both Core and Additional, or a B in the single subjects (where the student has done Triple award).

My school does also offer BTEC Applied Science, either on its own or with core Science GCSE, which is not a preparation for A level, but then we teach a lot of children who are not going to succeed in A level Science. That is why we have to be very clear about who should do what course.

picc · 27/07/2010 21:34

Thanks, tokyoambu (only just read your post due to energetic 18 mo DC and being very pregnant and tired!!)

Really interesting. And yes I, too, was sent to local comprehensive after grammar schools were abolished. And, much as I think I did very well there, my sneaking suspicion is that I wouldäve done just as well wherever I was. The lucky few who are bright enough and/ or have supportive parents I guess will always do well wherever they are.

I was always aware that everyone there thought I was 'posh', though. And this has had a certain effect on me....... I do have a few hang-ups and 'issues' that are, I think, a legacy from there.

And I do now wrestle with my conscience/ideals/PFB-ness, as I try to imagine being happy to send DS to our local comprehensive, which has a really bad reputation. I have a while to wait until I have to worry about this, but just the fact that I can imagine abandoning what I thought were deeply held ideals as soon as it applies to me personally makes me feel really ashamed!

Also find it interesting that you talk about schools being under 'sufferance'. Dad was basically told to go to local public school due to 11+ results, but never felt comfortable there. Nor at Cambridge. God! I wish I knew what the answers were, I really do. I really worry that, as long as my DCs turn out okay, and we can work out a way of helping them, I'll just begin to care less and less. Just like most people I guess... and so it continues!!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page