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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think there is no point in NHS Direct...

48 replies

tholeon · 21/07/2010 20:05

Just phoned because my 13 month old DS has a high fever 8 days after his MMR. Hoping for some advice as to whether we need to take him to A & E or just wait it out. Tried looking info up on the web first but it directed me to phone for any advice relating to under 5s...

Got an obviously completely unqualified person on the line who first asked me a long list of questions along the lines of is he in imminent danger right now (no - would be calling 999.) Then a brief question about whether he has any chronic illnesses (yes - a rare one - she didn't want to know which.) Then some really ridiculus stuff like 'is he in pain anywhere?' 'does he have a headache' - he's 13 months...he can't tell me..

Interestingly she didn't want to know how high the temperature actually is..

Eventually she told me that a nurse would phone me back in about 3 hours. I suppose that is the point of it and eventually I will speak to somebody a bit qualified. But really is there anything that can be added to

Is there any point to this service at all? Oh I know that the point is that the nurse will eventually phone but will they really be able to add anything to my own judgement? I guess I wish that if they are too busy to get a qualified person to speak to me straight away they would put some more stuff on the web.. I really just want to know what level of fever is concerning in a one year old...

Sorry probably just wanted a rant!

OP posts:
Marne · 21/07/2010 20:11

I found them useful when dd2 ate a oil pastel (dont ask), they managed to find out if it was harmful or not (luckily it wasn't) .

I took dd2 to A&E when she had a reaction to the MMR, she had a temp of 40+ and went floppy, i couldn't get her drink so i panicked, after a few hours (and after she took fluids from the nurse) she had fully recovered.

I think as long as your child is alert (not floppy) and is taking fluids then there isn't much they can do but if your worried go to A&E.

ShadeofViolet · 21/07/2010 20:14

I worked for NHS direct and they ask those questions because you do get people ringing up who are in real danger - I spoke to a lady once who's husband was choking and couldnt breathe properly.

YABU. Your call will be put at low priority. If they thought it was a very high priority you wouldnt wait 3 hours. And the person who you speak to isnt completely unqualified, just that the cost of the service would be ridiculously expensive if nurses awnsered the phones.

RhinestoneCowgirl · 21/07/2010 20:17

I've found them quite useful, and also found that the nurse callback happens quite quickly if it's for a baby/toddler.

I think that anything over 38 is counted as fever, I would be worried if temp was consistently over this and if it didn't respond to calpol etc.

Hope your DS is feeling better soon.

BrightLightBrightLight · 21/07/2010 20:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

EightiesChick · 21/07/2010 20:21

YANBU. They always tell you to ring your GP or go to A&E, or else if you want information they tell you stuff you could find out yourself through Google. I have not been impressed.

AgentZigzag · 21/07/2010 20:22

I'm sorry you didn't find them helpful, it's especially worrying when it's a baby as they're so small and things can happen quickly.

I've thought they were brilliant the times I've used them, and their website. Definately good for a inbetween service when it can't wait for the doctors to open but you don't think it warrents ringing 999 or going to A and E.

I'm glad they're there (or we'd be asking strangers on anonymous internet forums whether our DC are OK) and best of all, they're free and so open to everyone

slhilly · 21/07/2010 20:22

I think the basic idea is genius, but the way they've implemented it is fantastically dumb. They have misunderstood the basic point of a phone conversation, which is that people want an answer right now. No-one wants to be called back three hours later, or even thirty minutes later. As they seem to be incapable of setting it up so that you can speak to a clinician straight away, I agree that they should just scrap it.

It's a classic NHS implementation, sadly -- focused on all the stuff that appears important to the service designers (safety first, hoard the most costly resource for the people in real need) and completely ignoring what patients actually value.

The only private sector organisation I can think of that is just as bad with phones is Virgin Trains. Tesco wouldn't make this big a balls up, that's for sure! (And I don't like Tesco at all)

LaDiDaDi · 21/07/2010 20:26

Completely agree with slhilly. IMO it's a waste of resources as it is now.

RhinestoneCowgirl · 21/07/2010 20:26

But it is basically a triage system as is used in places like A&E surely?

Kaloki · 21/07/2010 20:27

They've been really good when I've had to use them, couldn't fault them.

muddleddaizy · 21/07/2010 20:32

Yabu, it's called triage.

Marne · 21/07/2010 20:33

You could go to A&E and still have to wait 3 hours to see a nurse or doctor, at least with NHS direct you don't have to load your child into the car and sit in A&E for hours for no reason.

Galena · 21/07/2010 20:38

'high fever that long after MMR is more likely to be a virus (imho) and nothing to be too concerned about.'

First bit is rubbish - they warn you when giving the jab at our surgery that they will probably get a fever 7-10 days after the jab. Second bit is probably true though - likely not to be too concerning.

With us, we were told if it was below 40 and responded to ibuprofen and/or calpol, and child was responsive as normal, then child was probably ok. If you can't get it down below 40 or if child is unresponsive, then it's more concerning.

Hope he feels better soon.

slhilly · 21/07/2010 20:38

Rhinestone, you've hit the nail on the head, but it's triage with a difference here, the user is saying "triage me please!" that's not what people ask for from A&E. The typical user is calling up to say "tell me if this is serious and I should go to A&E, or if I can relax". That clearly implies that they want a fast and authoritative answer.

There are two ways people set up triage:

  1. hoard your precious resource. Don't let the patient near a doctor until they've been through screening. Eg call up the GP and get a grilling by the receptionist on what the problem is and do you really need to a see a GP. Crap crap crap, pisses off patients, wastes lots of time, doesn't actually save resource.
  2. put the most precious resource at the front to make the decisions quickly and safely. Some A&Es do this -- they have a consultant who does nothing but quickly check each patient as they arrive and decide how serious the case is. This works really well, but is all too rare in the NHS.
larks35 · 21/07/2010 20:41

I think they are quite useful and probably save a lot of wasted GP or A&E visits.

BTW, my DS had MMR jab recently and nurse told me that he may get fever and mild symptoms of mumps, measles and/or rubella 6-10 days after. Her advice was Calpol or equivalent, lots of fluids and if worried bring in to docs. My DS didn't get any real symptoms but seemed to need a lot more sleep for a few days (from day 7 or so after the jab).

prozacfairy · 21/07/2010 20:43

I've found them to be very helpful the times I've called them.

All those questions they ask are standard but I must admit when I've been asked them they were worded differently "does your baby seem to be in any pain? is she drawing her knees up to her chin, her arms over her face, fo example?" was what one person asked.

I've never waited longer than half an hour for them to call me back, maybe I got lucky?

Shineynewthings · 21/07/2010 20:51

YABVU I have used them since they first launched about nine years ago, and with the exception of a few occasions have found them to be extremely good.

I have sometimes found that their nurses listen/and respond to my complaint better and faster than my GP out of hours service does. They have sometimes got back to me within minutes.

I think they're excellent overall - nothings ever perfect.

RhinestoneCowgirl · 21/07/2010 20:54

They were lovely to me when I phoned late at night with mastitis a couple of months ago, got me put through to my local out of hours service.

Original poster
tholeon · 21/07/2010 20:57

hello

well a nurse did call me back within an hour and actually she was very nice and helpful! So they are forgiven... But the initial person on the phone (ShadeofViolet) may not have been entirely unqualified but she didn't seem very bright - why ask me if my 13 month old has a headache?? Reminded me of the little britain 'computer says no' character. A more intelligent wording of that question and similar would have made me feel much better... And surely she should have asked how high the temperature was to give the nurses an idea of how urgent it was?

And maybe they should put more info related to under 5s on the website to save some of the calls?

Anyway, seems to have triggered a discussion.. And thanks all for the good wishes, his temp seems to have come down a bit now.

OP posts:
Bonsaibab · 21/07/2010 21:03

They used to be brilliant but I have found them less and less useful now that the service is so well used by the whole country.

GrimmaTheNome · 21/07/2010 21:09

We've found them helpful, and appropriately quick both for DD and DH (who has a heart condition).

Maybe the service varies by area, I wouldn't fault it.

Bestb411pm · 21/07/2010 21:12

I've had generally really good experiences with NHS Direct, I appreciate the triage is frustrating when you want an answer there and then, but it's still a better system than sitting in A&E or your GP surgery when there's no need or you can get advice by phone.

I would like to point out that although a lot of people do abuse the NHS, you also get a lot of people at the other end of the scale who've had it drumed into them about not wasting resources and sometimes just need some confirmation from a clinician that they're justified in seeking treatment. NHS Direct is brilliant for that and I suspect a lot of people who would have 'just seen how things went' have, in a relatively inexpensive time efficent way, ended up worse off in the long run have been helped by the service.

GrimmaTheNome · 21/07/2010 21:15

Oh, and I really love that it has an easy to remember nationwide number - useful when you're out walking and DH falls hard on head and you need advice. Miles from GP or A&E, we got a doctor on pretty quick who gave us the info we needed.

leftangle · 21/07/2010 21:15

We've rung them for exactly the same reason as the op and found them very helpful. Had all the screening questions and then a nurse call-back quite quickly. Def saved us a trip to a&e which I guess is the point of them.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 21/07/2010 21:18

Have phoned them alot.
have always found them useful from a call where they asked the ambulance service to contact me to reassurance about how much pain killers to give a 3 year old in pain.