to think that when I ask school for DDs FULL record, I should get her FULL record...

[Vallhala]

... and not just what the Headteacher wants me to see?

DD2 is in big trouble at school, I am not happy at the way it's been handled and have a forthcoming make or break meeting with them so I emailed the HT for DDs school record.

I got sent docs on the incident itself, a copy of DDs attendance marks sheet and her summer term report. No copy of her admission form, no details of an earlier event where the HT made a decision which broke the law, no copies of any communications between the school and I, including one which I specifically asked them to place on DDs file.

I dread to think of what docs they have that I don't know about and which the HT is witholding.

So, I asked again. The HT responded that she had already sent me a copy of DDs file, as described above.

ARGH! AIBU to expect a degree qualified woman to comprehend the words FULL RECORDS and not to attempt to cover her arse instead?

Thanks for that Fallen.

I wonder if excluding a pupil is sufficient to create a paperwork trial though? ;)

You seem to be more upset about the possible illegality of the "exclusion" than the problems your DD was suffering in the first place in order that it came about.
Why are you so cross? Surely you need to work with the school together to sort out the best solution for your DD to move forward and be happy? Threatening them with all these official bodies is hardly going to help, is it?

Maybe. But I have sent emails regarding students who have been excluded (legally of course!) which have not been seen as part of the trail. That tends to be the official paperwork. So I cna see why there mightn't be any...

Was she really only in school for one day? Has she been back in school since?

clam, I'm NOT more upset about the illegality of the exclusion than I am DDs problems. Sorry if you have that impression. Nor have I 'threatened' the school with ANY official body.

Working with the school is not now an option, it's a really long story, you'll just have to believe me on that.

Fallen, she was really in school for one day before this happened, she went back as ACE advised me to ignore the unofficial exclusion and all was relatively calm until another problem later on. She is now out of school again, but this time it's official.

(Before anyone tells me that this explains me being so cross, let me add that on the contrary, I'm extremely philosophical about it).

So do you think she has been wrongly (though legally) excluded this time? Is that why you want to see the records?

I can understand where you are coming from Val. DS had a wrongful exclusion. The full story was found out and the school phoned to apologise that they had excluded him before proper investigations, and consequently he was found not to be in the wrong.

Copies of the exclusion go to various people including Education Welfare and other parties.

I requested that as the exclusion was a mistake, please could they remove this from his school record, and inform the people who had this information on their records.

I was told that once an exclusion was on record, it can never be removed. [wtf]

As you can imagine, i was furious. All I had was it in writing that more came to light the following day and an apology. The rest remained on his record. We removed him from the school.

Not just me then Red? If it wasn't unkind to you, I'd feel relieved hearing that.

VERY long story, wsa trying to keep everything short and didn't mean to AIBU by stealth.

The basics:

DD2, (13), a child with immature and challenging behaviour, went to secondary school A for one year, until Easter term 2010. Her primary school behaviour record was exemplary but social integration skill problems noted. On day one she was bullied at secondary school A. I complained, nothing was done, and so it continued. DD2 retaliated - school A had been warned she eventually would as she is scared of school, having been assaulted by a parent in a past one and having been let down by that HT. I got ignored. DD2 in big trouble for retaliating.

Year Head suggested a possible AS condition and said they would test DD. After 6 months of me begging, asking and fighting all DD got was a standard academic assessment. This identified a minor learning issue (handwriting speed).This issue was holding her back academically and she would need extra time in exams, the school said. Although she's of above average intelligence this kept her back in a low streamed class with kids who bullied her. I asked school to get her up to speed (excuse pun) and offered to support this at home using whatever method the school told me to. School refused to help DD.

I was told DD2 would have an Ed Psych appt as she was in a state - temper tantrums, under the GP for sleeplessness, coming home crying and being sick, refusing to go to school out of fear, aggressive responses, immature behaviour, playing with matches, inappropriate social boundaries, the works. I waited 9 months and then got told the Ed Psych wouldn't see her.

There's loads more but if you're not all asleep by now, I'm sure you get the picture.

Luckily we moved this Spring, and DDs moved schools. I told new school (B) all about the past, that DD2 could be challenging, asked them to read her full notes, and asked them to consider where and with whom they placed her carefully. Got told they wouldn;t worry about that now, and that she'd be fine.

She was unofficially excluded for verbally retaliating to abusive name-calling the very day after she started! School said as she had been out of school so long, she needs to re-integrate. ("So long" being the Easter hols and about 2 weeks either side, which was unavoidable).

ACE told me to ignore, send DD in, and they bet the school wouldn't challenge her presence. ACE were right!

All calm-ish until 2 weeks ago when DD2 was permanently expelled for having a knife on her in school (not her fault, I had chucked it into her school bag as I hurled bits into all our bags when packing after a weekend away. DD2 had taken her bag with her to do homework, the knife was a multi-tool and been used by our hosts as a corkscrew, btw).

DD2 was confronted by staff and tried to be allowed to hand over knife/explain away from peers, who were jeering. Staff first refused and there were a few words. Child (one who DD2 had complained of bullying her in the previous week), accused DD of threatening to stab him. it's his word vs DDs.

DD2 hauled into inclusion room, went ape at being in small, confined area, was moved, was angry at being accused of threatening other child, angry at being punished for having knife by mistake etc and swore at and walked off on staff.

Now, I have NO ISSUE with the decision to expel. DD2 is in the wrong and must take the punishment.

BUT... when I attend the Governers meeting wrt the exclusion, I want to tell all, as the LA inclusion officer will be there, in order to get DD the help she needs in the RIGHT school and explain that had school B listened to me this may not have happened.

I want all of this on DDs school record so that someone might actually consider the POSSIBILITY that my DD has extra needs, CERTAINLY that she deserves the academic help refused by school A, and possibly too might begin to help her.

Plus, I'm buggered that I want anyone else's child go through a back door exclusion either!

So, I need every document going to PROVE that I warned the school, that the 1st exclusion actually happened and so on.

REALLY sorry this is so long guys!

The exclusion that you've described is illegal as there is no such thing as an unofficial exclusion.

Have you explained to the Head that the reason you want to see the records that relate to your DD's transition to school B is so you can build up a paper trail with a view to requesting a statement of SEN? I'm not condoning the school's witholding of information that you are entitled to but I do wonder if they might be more willing if they see that this is about your DD's needs rather than a witch hunt against them.

IME the LA inclusion officer can be an incredibly knowledgable person who actually knows the legal ins and outs in a way that individual Heads don't always... hopefully your one is one of these and s/he will get things on track so your DD gets the input and support she needs.

Hi sorry not read entire thread, but I do know that when / if you appeal against an exclusion entire records are sent to all parties I.e you, lea, exclusion panel. These include everything I.e detentions / reprimands / appraisals / details of incidents... They just blank out names of any other children.

Put in a FOI request to the LEA rather than the school (assuming it's LEA school).

I work for an LA and some of my team clerk exclusion appeals.