to want my dd to be able to have Desmopressin

[thecaptaincrocfamily]

DD is 4.5yo and has been dry during the day since 20mths

There is a family history of bedwetting until age 12yrs.

The continence nurse specialist said that for lots of girls who stop at this age it is hormone related so would not stop with other methods.

I have tried lifting, voiding before bed, limiting fluid before bed but pushing daytime intake. She has had 2 dry nights in her lifetime and is now saying she will never be dry She is bright enough to know she ought to be and it is affecting her self-esteem

MacDoodle I really resent the accusation that I am making it worse - I do no such thing....having had a mother who wouldn't change my bedding and called me names for wetting at night

I never mention it - she says 'I'll never be dry' which indicates she knows she wants to be and she also knows her friends do not wear pullups at night.

I was 12 and fully understand how awful it is and that no amount of wanting to be dry makes any difference ime.

I am well aware that it is a common problem, about the statistics, I also know the difference between a neurogenic bladder, primary nocturnal enuresis and pure behavioural wetting. The research also will say that of children who ceased wetting at puberty as I did, is related to pituitary development which is the cause of PNE. (categorised by huge volume of urine production at night and no frequency to indicate a UTI). My reason for wanting desm is not for my own convenience as some would suggest, but because I do not want her to miss out on trips or suffer any embarrassment as I did on them. If she has PNE caused by a lack of vasopressin then surely it will be better for her to try it sooner rather than later, since otherwise she will have to wait until puberty for it to stop. I also have my BNF to hand and am very conversant with the side effects, which if they occurred I would obviously stop the drug!

" she knows she wants to be and she also knows her friends do not wear pullups at night."

yes - that's exactly what DS1 said to me at that age as well...........

well - he's 9 (nearly 10) now - and he and his best friend (who he's been friends with since he was a toddler) were both delighted to have dry nights on both nights they were away on their school residential last week..........

She's not even 5 yet. Just because you had such a terrible time doesn't mean she will. Stop projecting. She's not likely to be doing overnight trips at 5 or 6 is she. Bedwetting at her age is normal- one in 5 children.

Thanks olderandwider like the name btw! That is a really interesting link

Narkypuffin - I am confused about the norm if only 1 in 5 wets surely the norm at 5 is to be dry, that is the majority??

yes - but 1 in 5 in a class of 30 means that 6 are still not dry.

It's not like you're talking 1 in 30 (so only one in just one class)

It's within normal developmental range. You wouldn't seek medical help for a 14 month old baby because they weren't walking, even though lots of other babies were at that age.

It's not considered a medical issue until your DD is 6/7. In trying so hard to avoid her being stigmatised in the way you were you risk creating anxiety in her about something that is totally normal. It worries me that you've already labelled her as abnormal/different.

Tocca - it is no problem for me, nor her wearing pullups, it is a problem to her and is making her unhappy. I don't want her to feel bad.

Narky - if she wasn't still wetting after being lifted I would not want to put her on this, however, knowing what I do about this issue it will not resolve without hormonal intervention. It is familial and because she is unhappy (my next door neighbour made a comment yesterday when my dd was at the front door and her dad stupidly had a pullup in hand )saying in front of her ' Oh she still wears a nappy!' to which I clearly explained that it was nothing unusual but dd had made her own comments way before this.

yes well it made my DS unhappy because he believed he was the only one among his peers who wasn't dry at night.

Obviously having just been on his first trip away from home with school and he and his best friend both being delighted they had dry nights (some 5yrs after he believed he was the only one) - shows that he was mistaken.

oh - and hormonal intervention won't always work.

Didn't for my DS1.

What improved it for him (still not totally sorted) was

• increasing fluids during the day (particularly earlier part of the day)

• wee-teeth-wee before bed - to make sure his bladder is fully empty

• an alarm (to a minor extent - not a huge help really but it did improve things slightly)

Desmo did NOTHING for him at all.

I can see exactly why you want her on the medication and TBH if I were in your situation I'd probably want to do the same- and to punch your neighbour.

I don't know if any doctor will give treatment to a child of her age.

Umm thanks for having a go at me personally, when as far as I can see you have almost everyone saying YABU!! Unusual for such a stron sentiment one way or another on AIBU, but seems you are one posting on AIBU, who doesnt actually want to be told YABU!

And I am sorry there is no way a 4yr comes up with the comments and sentiments you have mentioned without picking them up from somewhere, and seeing as no one else knows it can only be you! Maybe sunconsciously, but its you doing it, step back and let it be!

I wouldnt prescribe desmo, but if you were so unpleasant and aggressive in my surgery, I would refer you to get you to leave me alone, I can guarantee a 100% the enuresis clinic wouldnt prescribe either!

My DD1's best friend (both 9 in sept), still wears pull ups at night, her mum has never made a big deal out of it, and when she sleeps over she very discreetly puts her pulls ups on, no problem, dont project your bad experiences as a child onto your own child!

OP, if your dd is unhappy because she thinks she is the only one who is not dry at 4, surely this is where you do a bit of maternal explaining. Tell her that it is common, tell her that there will be other children in her class who aren't dry, but that they just aren't telling her about it. Ime children are often unhappy because they mistakenly think they are the only people in the world who can't do something: it is our job as parents to put them right.

Tell her there is no way she is the only one still in pullups at night. I think I know about 2 kids who were dry at night before 5.

The rest got it at around 5, tell her it really isn't important and doesn't matter and that sometimes people pretend things that are not true.

OP I can see where you are coming from in wanting to help your DD. My sister wet the bed until she was 13 or so, despite practically every intervention under the sun. Nothing worked - she just grew out of it. My parents did nothing different with her than with us in the 'potty training' stage. Her DD is now 6.8 yo and still wears pull ups at night. My DD is 3.10 and has been dry day and night since she was 2.8yo.

I am not sure whether I would consider the drugs - but then, I am not in the situation.

From another POV, as a teacher I have taken annual residential trips of Year 4 children (aged 8-9 years) and every year we have had [invariably] mums come up to us in the preparation stages concerned about their DC still wetting at night. EVERY YEAR we have had AT LEAST 2 children in pull-ups at night and it has NEVER been a problem. The children sleep in shared cabins with friends and en-suite bathrooms and simply sort themselves out before bed and in the morning.

I hope, for your DD and your sake that she is dry by the age of 9, but if not, it will not be the end of the world. I do think there is a slight chance that you are, subconsciously, empathising with her too closely because of the harsh way your own mum dealt with your situation when you were younger.

Good luck.

I realise drynites sponsor mumsnet but think you should also consider environmental alternatives such as diurnetix.com/boys/childrens-washable-bedtime-pants.html which are also less expensive in the long run and don't have side effects like desmopressin.

Sorry that should have been diurnetix.com/boys/childrens-washable-bedtime-pants.html

YABVU. It is normal for 4.5 year olds still not to be dry at night. In fact an enuresis clinic won't see a child under 7 as a lot of children still wet the bed at this age. DD3 wet the bed until she was 14 yes she took
Desmopressin but not until she was 10 and then the advice we were given was to only let het take it for a few weeks then have a break before starting it again.
Liniting fluids actually doe not help it can make bed wetting worse. Also Lifting is not a good idea unless you make sure that the child is fully awake.
Being dry in the day actually has no relation to being dry at night

You need to relax a bit and not put pressure on her to be dry. Reeasure her that it doesn't mater and lots of other children still wet the bed at her age.

I feel that many of the posters are coming at this with information gleaned from GP's or nurses dealing with enuresis.

I think I mentioned that I have recently spent the day with an enuresis nurse who pointed out to me that indeed most health professionals do nothing until 7 and infact it is her biggest frustration, as it is mine.

She is 4 in years but is intellectually much older and wants to be dry.
I have explained it is not unusual etc but swhe is still expressing her frustration.

The situation is now worse because her sister who is 2.3yo has had several dry nights so we have to praise her for that, which inevitably makes dd1 feel angry....
do I not praise dd2 to avoid upset to dd1?
I try not to do it infront of dd1 but she has come into the room and overheard

Macdoodle I mentioned you by name because you presumed that I want her to be dry for my own convenience and that I am causing her upset about this. I'm not. Actually my 4yo is very capable of reaching her own conclusions without suggestions from me.

I encourage her fluid intake during the day up to after our evening meal 1 hr before bed. I encourage her to have 2 wees before bed. I have stopped blackcurrent juice and bubble bath to see if it helps her - it doesn't. Nothing makes any difference

Enuresis has some hereditary factors and these continue i.e. mine was hormonal and stopped when periods started, it is likely this is the case for dd1. Desmopressin in this instance is likely to help (the enuresis nurse agreed with this.)

I agree that desmopressin is not always the answer and if dd1 didn't care about it then I wouldn't care if she was 18 when she stops

The fact is that she does care.

"it is likely this is the case for dd1" = hpw on earth can you tell when she is 4.5 and therefore so common not to dry at night.

My DS is the same age and he is unhappy about various things but prescribing a serious drug to a four year old in the absence (presumably) of any evidence that it will be effective seems a bit premature.

Can;t you get her to talk to someone (doctor or nurse) who will convince her that it is perfectly normal and that its just that few childrne admit to it.

"so we have to praise her for that" - why? DS was bone dry day and night by 3 and has never had a night time "accident. Nothing to do with anyhting other than the way his blader and hormones are - I never praised him for it just suggested one day that we leave his nightime pull ups off/

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