to be really upset reading the way kids have been treated in custody?

[BitOfFun]

Here

I have a child with special needs, who will doubtless never be in this situation, but it rips my heart out to think that there exist manuals in this day and age for "restraint" which include some of these measures. I'm actually pretty gutted to see that this sort of thing goes on anymore.

For children as young as 12?

Apparently

How do you stop a young person intent on self harm?
Somone who is banging their head repeatedly against the wall or the edge of a metal toilet?

Until you have been in the position of being attacked by a child intent on causing you serious harm it is very hard to understnd. However the CYP in custody will be there for a very good reason, CYP are. Given custodial sentences relatively infrequently. It is hard for those who do not have experience of it to understand the level of violence that people working in this typw of environment sometimes have to face.

restraint procedures have saved some young peole from awful intended self harm.

My sister used to work in a Special Needs Home, she used to come home regularly looking like she'd gone 3 rounds with Tyson.

It's a hard fact to accept that people working in these environments have to know how to restrain and protect themselves and others.

Shocking. Of course restraint is needed in a last resort and of course these are often very difficult children in a very difficult environments. But this is all the more reason for staff to do their utmost to restrain safely and without the intention of hurting and humiliating, rather than using techniques described by experts in this field as "child abuse".

we should just let these "children" do as they like.

Oh isn't that exactly why they are there.

(sarcasm)

I'm sorry, what?? People are describing the techniques in here as "restraint". How is it restraint, to rake your heel down someone's shins? How is it restraint to break the nose, ribs, wrists or fingers of a teenager, all of which are injuries recorded from the application of these techniques. Why would you inflict significant harm to prevent self-harm, when there are non-harmful techniques available?

Of course, some of these people are big tough and violent. Some of them may be damaged, and others just plain nasty. But I fail to see how any of that gives an adult the right to hit them in a way that risks a skull fracture or causing blindness, except if another person's life were in imminent danger.

Why do people hate children so much?

I work with teenagers in an environment where we can restrain using the team teach ethos. There is no need to 'pin' a kid down and hurt them on purpose - to me that is assault. Yes they might get hurt in the process - especially if you are not restraining properly - but to stick fingers in groins and such like is horrible.

Sometimes I have to restrain my sn son.He's 9 and almost as tall as me, I have been bitten, punched, headbutted, scratched, had chunks of my hair pulled out etc

I hate having to do it and thankfully we have his autism under control so his outbursts are getting less frequent, maybe once or twice a week.

Having said that ds les on the floor and asks to be 'strained' sometimes when he starts getting anxious, think he likes the control being exerted or some such

My boy has sn including severe behavioural problems I actually asked to be trained in CALMS the restraint used in his school but it wasn't available for parents, as a consequence I am often covered in bruises.

Not that I condone these awful methods of abuse hitting in the face and groin is never acceptable.

I understand that these are inflicting pain on children, but at 12 they may well be taller and stronger than there carers. These will have been chosen so that they don't cause broken bones or serious injury and designed to shock, and stop dangerous behaviour. Would you rather they just punched, kicked and bit back?

When I read it I presumed the sticking fingers in face/groin were "release techniques" ... ie forcing a child to release their hold on either another child or a member of staff.

It is pretty grim/extreme reading, but I've seen some pretty grim/extreme violent behaviour from children in regular, mainstream school. I think the conditions facing staff in these units are beyond the experience or comprehension of most of us.

Having said that I couldn't work in such a setting. I declined the opportunity of "restraint training", as I simply wouldn't/couldn't do it.

Sorry to re post, I just feel so passionate about the kids i work with and am disgusted with what i have read. I hate the thought that kids are being treated like this.

I have worked with kids for 16 yrs and have never had to pin one of them down. Yes i restrain (anything which restricts their movements is classes and recorded as a restraint - for example blocking a door way while they are pushing against you or moving them by holding their shoulders) A lot of our restraints end up in a cuddle because this is what the kid needs so desperately. We rely a lot on our relationships with the kids in the first place - which is our biggest tool.

Yes i have been hit and had things thrown at me - but you move out of the way - not pin someone down... if people go about pinning kids down all the time (and 'assaulting' them) how can you possibly have a relationship with them?

I dont work with SN but i can imagine that the same techniques might not work and they may need restraing more often - i am not against restraining in principle.

Manda if you have never worked with children with SN then you don't know how difficult it can be.

Roisin
Restraint training isnt what it sounds like - in fact a lot of the course is about
deescalating situations so that there is no need for restraint. You dont get taught how to pin someone down but more how to hold someone (with out hurting them) in a sitting position by holding their arms and elbows. A lot of it is also very general self defense techniques - how to get out of a situation if a 6foot kid jumps you from behind kind of stuff

Captin as i said i have never worked with SN and as i said they may need restraining more often (i dont know) but what i do know is that there is no need to restrain a child and then hurt them intentionally.

But i have and do work with teenagers who self harm/fight/do drugs/prostitution/mental health problems /drink/rape and murder

It's hard to understand any of the uses for these techiniques unless you work in an environment where they may be needed. Where I work we are taught how to retrain teenagers when they are a danger to themselves or others.

We use restraint only as a last resort and not one of us enjoy doing it. Sometimes we have to do this as a child is trying to harm themselves. We use techniques that do not rely on 'pain compliance'.

Other times, a child is deliberately trying to harm staff. Some of the children (Yes, even those as young as 12) are bigger and stronger than me. I have never yet used pain complaince techiniques as there has always been another way. However, if I were put in a position where I felt my life (or that of my colleagues) were in immediate danger, I would not hesitate to use pain compliance techiniques to stop that situation.

If someone were holding me by the neck (from behind) and were restricting my breathing I would rather 'scrape my foot down their shins' or elbow them in the ribs then risk being killed. This does happen. Sometimes children will attempt to injure or even kill staff. In these situations were shold respond with the 'minimum force' needed. Usually, the minimum force needed is non pain compliant restraint. Sometimes more force is needed.

These techiniques are an absolute last resort. The article doesn't give the full picture. It doesn't talk about all the non-pain relaint techiniques that are used, and it doens't appear to note that these techiniques are (or should be!) reserved only for situations when life is immediately at risk.

There will always be some that abuse their power, but these techniques, when used properly, have a place.

Depends how it's done. I tend to lie over ds and talk quietly, when I sense he's calming down I loosen my grip on one wrist, eventually releasing his arm, then he has to follow my verbal instruction ie touch nose, eyes etc it means i'm gaining control. Then the other hand gets released and again under my control (make a rocket) simply because if both arms are in the air and he's concentrating on that he's not punching/clawing at me !

I have never harmed ds in any way, there is no need to (tho I did hold on to his hair once, I hadnt got him into the correct position and he was trying to bite my chest,he stopped trying to bite my chest because it meant his hair got pulled so no harm done)

Intentionally causing harm is wrong imo, I would rather lie there for hours making rockets than do that.

You dont get taught how to pin someone down but more how to hold someone (with out hurting them) in a sitting position by holding their arms and elbows

This is what I asked about,as I had seen it work on him and often it ended up in cuddles when he came out of it. I did sort of try myself but ended up hurting myself because of his aggression towards me

My sister's an LD nurse and would agree with Manda - it's about de-escalating to try to avoid restraint. And understanding their behaviour - one person with autism she worked with needed an escape route when he was feeling stressed, so you NEVER stood between him and the doorway. Or he'd barge you out of the way. Not intending to hurt you, just driven to get out. If you were in his way, he would hurt you.

However, she does disapprove of some techniques and there have been ones that used to be taught that have been abandoned as they were dangerous and could cause injury.

The police used to restrain people in custody by sitting on top of them - caused several deaths when people just couldn't breathe. Terrible.

Manda, blocking a doorway is not restraint, but seclusion and should be used very differently from restraint. I agree with much of what you've said, though. De-escalation is a key skill.

You're right that there is no need to restrain then cause harm intentionally, but pain-reliant techniques are often used when restraint isn't an option.

I hope that no-one "goes about pinning kids down all the time" and I don't think anyone suggested we did, but we do restrain and seclude when needed, and still manage to have good relationships with the teens we work with.