…to tell this man off in public, for upsetting my friend?

[kingnothing]

My friend can?t have children - has been TTC for 5-ish years - and is currently looking into IVF. We were at a wedding reception this evening, and she was openly talking about it with some friends and colleagues. One bloke (not in our party - but also not pissed, in anticipation of that question) was nearby and butted in with ?I know it?s sad for you, but don?t you think there?s a reason why some people can have kids and some people can?t. Maybe you should just realise it?s natural selection, give up and not play God?

I mean?.!

Was I unreasonable when I told him to stay out of other people?s conversations (OK - a bit U as we were in a public place) and keep his narrow minded opinions to himself? I didn?t swear or raise my voice, but I was very sharp with him. A few people nearby raised their eyebrows at me, and made me think that maybe I was overstepping the line - my friend left the reception (no doubt in tears) and went home, and isn?t responding to texts or phone calls now.

Just in response to a couple of posters who have an opinion similar to the man in the OP
I know that I, personally, when TTC was definitely not self-obsessed - or obsessed with conceiving. I was disappointed that life/medical conditions/the situation had taken away my choice, but for 8 out of the 10 years that we were TTC, no one else even knew!
On a personal level, I found it hard enough to reconcile the problems that we faced with the people that I liked to think we were - and if someone (as they did) said something like that to me, I would have been mortified, as I spent too much of my precious time wondering if I was being punished for something I had done previously, and therefore didn?t ?deserve? to have children.
But - do you know what? I DO feel as though I am a good parent to my son, - I love him, protect him, take care of him and can?t wait to spend the rest of my life with him. So whatever the reasons were for me being unable to conceive, it is not because I shouldn?t have. Just because you CAN, doesn?t mean you should, and just because you CAN?T, doesn?t mean you shouldn?t

I think that is an abhorrent opinion, TBH - I know that some posters believe it to be a valid opinion, but I think it?s an awful thing to think let alone say. Especially to someone he didn?t even know. I know you?re not questioning his opinion, Kingnothing, but I respect both your opinion of him, and your reaction to him putting him in his place. Hope your friend is OK

but sterrryerryoh I don't think that saying that it's nature's way or not meant to be implies that someone doesn't deserve to have children.

I like to look at it as things being how they are meant to be.

Imagine if you'd fallen pg when you'd started ten years before. You would have totally different children now, a totally different life. And you would be ten years on from where you are now. Looking back, if you could relive your life, would you change that? would you swap the children you have now for different ones?

When I started ttc my first child I wanted to be pregnant then and there. But it took time, over a year, to the point where I'd begun to think we had a problem and were undergoing tests. But then I fell pg with my ds, and I knew once he was born that he was the child I was meant to have. If I'd fallen pregnant at any other time I wouldn't have had that child, and my life would be different. Yes at the time I would have wanted it different, but if I could go back and change that I wouldn't.

Now obviously that's different to not being able to have children at all, however me not being able to have a second child has exposed me to opportunities that otherwise wouldn't have arisen. Yes if I could go back I probably would still have chosen to have another child, but now that that wasn't meant to be I have chosen to take the opportunities given to me, and to live the life I am meant to live with just the one child.

The reality is that we can't change the outcomes. We can try to manipulate them through treatments etc but ultimately it is all down to nature, and if it's not meant to be then it won't be. And no amount of science or medicine will change that.

And we can either let it destroy us, or choose to live our lives. Allowing it to take over achieves nothing but bitterness and resentment and unhappyness.

Well, it?s a bit different for me, wannaBe, as I?ve still not conceived, and never will. But the suggestion that I couldn?t conceive because I wasn?t ?fit? to be a mother in someway still makes me angry (and yes, I have heard people say that - not specifically about me, but about people who can?t conceive in general) Just because I can?t get pregnant or carry a child - does that mean I should just forget about it, and not have a family and make peace with being childless? Well, in my opinion, absolutely not. It?s an argument that isn?t based in fact, surely? There are so many childless couples, men and women who have so much to offer a child, and so many other people who can have biological families who (arguably) shouldn?t, that to my mind so-called ?natural selection? doesn?t seem to get it right, very often

Update:
Just got off the phone with my friend. She was upset earlier on, but not devastated, and says she feels much better after a cry and a think, and she knows that people have these opinions - just wasn?t prepared for it this evening in a social setting. I told her about my little outburst, and she found it v funny, and also asked me to pass on thanks to those of you who have posted supportive messages (which I read to her) - so thanks!

oenopod I appreciate that your attitude helps you keep your infertility in perspective and get on with life.

However, I was infertile and I don't think it was 'natural selection' or anything like that. I have severe endemetriosis which I don't think I would have if I'd been having babies since the age of 11 like 'nature' intended (the consulltant agreed with me).My condition is one which modern life exacerbates. The best treatment for my condition was pregnancy, but it also prevented that.

2 ivf attempts and 3 lovely children later I don't think I've upset the natural order of things!

I don't think children are a right and I don't think ivf should sit alongside something like treatment for cancer in terms of priority(which is why I paid for all of mine rather than take up my 'free go ' on the nhs)and I don't think the world would have ended if I didn't have kids.

However,I also don't believe in a God with a grand plan or that mixing up my eggs and dh's sperm in a laboratory was wrong-it's fantastic that we could do it and it's ridiculous to suggest that it would have been 'for the best' if we hadn't had our 3 as a result-the world is definately richer because of their existence.

YANBU whether his opinion is valid or not isn't the point. He knew she was upset as he said "I know it's very sad for you", and so should have known better than to basically pour salt into the wound.

Glad your friend is feeling better

Opinions are like arse holes.

Everyone has one, most of them stink.

Some people have children and can't look after them, abuse them etc so maybe natural selection isn't perfect.

Good for you what a complete prat he was! i hope your friend is ok, good on you for sticking up for her xxxxxxxxxxxx

I just don't get this opinion that if you can't conceive there's a good reason why not and you should just come to terms with it. It is a medical condition, not some god given punishment ffs! You'd not say that to a cancer sufferer, 'don't take the meds, perhaps it is for the best and you're not meant to live'.

I have friends who have had awful times ttc, they are now very good parents to beautiful children.

I have ds who was conceived naturally and without much trouble, but now am struggling ttc a second child. While I can see that one can get obessive about ttc, I don't see why that shouldn't be considered a valid emotion. I am deeply sad that I might not be able to give DS a brother or sister, I try not to go on about it but if anyone said it was 'for the best' they'd get a resounding 'fuck off' from me.

After typing all this I see that defineme has said similar, but I'll post anyway.

OP the man was a twat and you are a good friend.