to apply for a permanent job when I'm preggers?

[noeyedear]

I've just found out I'm pregnant, which I would be overjoyed about, if it wasn't for the fact I've just been made redundant and my DH's job is also at risk. I have been applying for jobs, as I need to at least work until the baby is due. I know I wouldn't get maternity benefits etc, but is it just cr*p to turn up and then say 'actually, I'm pregnant and I need to bugger off for 6 months or more?" We could live on DH's salary and tax credits, but if DH loses his job we would be royally screwed. We have never been unemployed so we have a fairly large mortgage and bills. I have no idea how we would pay them if both of us were out of work.

Capricorn76 did NOT say that she would not employ someone if they were pregnant, simply that it would cause the business real problems, problems which can result in bankrupcy. It is up to the individual to make the choice and live with the morals.

Thanks Doyouwanttoknowasecret. I never said that I wouldn't employ someone who was pregnant, I'm not anti-pregnancy. I've just had one employee return from maternity leave as the the other one was leaving to go on mat leave. I am due to go also. This is all we could cope with for now. What I said was that it was unfair to lie about your pregnancy status to an employer as it could result in their company going under. There are only 4 of us and we would really struggle to keep going. I know the OP situation is hard but I just want to give the employers perspective.

Absolutely none of their business at this stage. YANBU.

I heard of someone applying to do a short-term maternity cover
... knowing that she herself was pregnant
... of course she got the job and then went on maternity leave.

legally I don't think there is anything to stop this, but IMO SWBU

Surely even though we think access to employment for childbearing women is crucial, we can admit it can be difficult for small business employers like capricorn76?

But OP is talking about a school, which is different.

Seems to be a bit of a misconception that employers pay maternity pay - they don't. The state gives it to them plus extra for their trouble. They just administer it. We did this for our nanny. It's really easy.

The difficulty for an employer is in organising the cover, especially if specialised post. Plenty of teaching cover around, though.

Could you not do a full time short-term contract of say 6 months instead of applying for permanent jobs?

I wrestled with is similar dilemma when pregnant with mu first. I had applied for a new job within the same organisation and got an interview, then found out I was pregnant. I talked to my boss about it, who as it happened was also pregnant, and she counselled me against telling my potential new boss on the grounds that the pregnancy might not go to term. I know it's a horrible thing to think about but if the worst happened, you would probably want a permanent job. In the end, I withdrew my application once I got to 12 weeks, but I was already employed and there were other reasons for not wanting the job. I now have two healthy children. The woman who got the job as a result of my withdrawing, is now two grades above me...

Schools have budgets too. And children need continuity of care at primary school.

Be careful with the supply idea. It's taking longer and longer each year for work to pick up after the summer holidays, September is generally a dead loss and October's getting to be a bit of a wash out work-wise now as well.

Generally it's dead till pushing towards October half-term now, then it picks up and you can work pretty much every day - but the pick-up is coming later and later, every year I sit and doubt it's actually going to come - and that's as someone who's established, known to, and specifically requested by the schools.

Just a word to the wise if you DO end up going down that road - budget very carefully for Sept/Oct.

Capricorn - why should the OP stuff up her career by taking on a [often] dead end contract or supply job? Also, why should permanent employers be denied the OP's excellent skills?

OP - look to the longer term. You could be in your next post for the next 10 or more years. In that context, taking a few months or even a year out on maternity leave isn't that big a deal. A sensible employer would be more concerned that they have got the right person for the job than about whether you need to take a relatively short period out for maternity leave.

I think it is incredibly deceitful tbh and I know I am about the only person in the world who thinks this, but I honestly do not understand the arrogance of people who do this.

I turned down the job of my dreams when I found out I was unexpectedly pregnant and although my career is now dead I hold my head up high for doing the right thing.

Any employer takes soemone on and expects them to commit to working with them. Yes, unforseen circumstances mean that is not always the case, but you are starting a job -knowing that in a few months you will be leaving. The children will have to get used to someone else and the employer will have to find a replacement.

Look at it this way - if you started a new job and in 6 months found yourself redundant you would be pissed off. Imagine if it turned out that when they took you on for what you thought was a long-term job the employer already knew that in a few months they would be laying you off - I think you would feel pretty deceived, wouldn't you.

If you want the job then i think you should tell them up front and be honest.

It is never unreasonable to do this, regardless of the employer. The law is the way it is for a reason - because women in this position are routinely discriminated against, and need protection.

Employers have their own protection. All employers can claim back 90% of SMP, and small employers can claim back 110%. (And as you say, you won't qualify anyway).

Capricorn76, are you Alan Sugar in disguise? You are saying that you want women to tell you they are pregnant so that you can discriminate against them.

If there are two interviews, maybe you could consider mentioning it at the second interview. Then if you don't get the job and you think that was a factor, sue for sex discrimination!

I did it and got a job at 5 months pregnant.

There is a dearth of supply work at the moment due to cover supervisors- a very risky thing to bank on getting supply work.

OP would not qualify for any maternity pay other than SMP (or MA?) anyway- It's quite possible that whoever does her maternity cover could be 10% cheaper, so the school does not lose out financially.

Let them know if they offer you the job, which would be on the same day as the interview. They are not allowed to withdraw the offer, and any school worth its salt wouldn't dream of doing so.

I think it is really deceitful to not tell a potential employer you're already pregnant, especially when it's a small business.

Jane05 - it's no wonder there are so many employers who won't even interview women of a certain age when there are women around with attitudes like yours.

OMG Capricorn76... I feel sorry for the one person who isn't on maternity leave in your office!! Having been that person myself I would say that the only issue I have with people coming and going on mat leave is that it makes life very tough on those non-pregnant people left behind to cover. (I once had to carry over most of my annual leave because one lady kept changing her mind about when she was coming back to work so I couldn't have any holiday approved until they knew what to do about covering the office.) At least if everyone knows where they are from the start then you can plan properly.

It's not just the mat leave, it's the doctor/midwife appointments etc etc that you have to do that others have to adjust their schedules around - not to mention any morning sickness etc etc. It is difficult though as if it was me I wouldn't want to tell anyone until 12 weeks had passed. If you have the option of supply work I would go for that to be honest... easier and fairer on all concerned.

I understand what people are saying about pregnant women being discriminated against, but surely there is also an onus on the person applying for a job to demonstrate a bit of integrity.

My DP also runs a small business and he would be really screwed if someone kept quiet and he then had to advertise/interview all over again - plus it's so hard to find skilled people to do his line of work, he might even lose contracts because of not having the staff he thought he was going to.

KickButtowski I simply don't agree that you necessarily did the right thing. Employers only think about themselves after all, why shouldn't you. As an example, I left a job I'd been in for 5 years to go elsewhere and was made redundant after around a year. Clearly I was annoyed I'd given up a secure job for one that didn't work out so quickly.....

Further in respect of the job I was in for 5 years, well I unexpectedly found myself pregnant after I'd been working there for 6 weeks, I WAS NOT pregnant when I started. I took just 6 months maternity leave and went back for 5 years. They didn't mind.

Both these events have lead me to strongly believe you have to look out for yourself.

OP: the time to tell them is once you have a job offer IN WRITING.

@ Jane054848. Yes I'm Alan Sugar in disguise, you got me! Just taking a few minutes off from filming the latest series of The Apprentice, make sure you catch it this Autumn!

Most employers are people with kids of their own and in the main have no issue with women and pregnancy despite the odd meany but if you lie to them forget about having a glittering career when you get back. You will have a hard time being promoted if they feel they cannot trust you and their first impression is that you are a liar.

There's nothing wrong with the OP taking a fixed-term contract job in her field then searching for full-time employment when she gets back from mat leave. She may fall back a bit in terms of career progression but that would happen anyway when you're on mat leave.

The vast majority of employers who employ less than 50 staff actually tend to think an awful lot of their employees. The single biggest cost to a business is the wage bill every month so I hardly think employers only think about themselves.

OP you also mention that your dh may become reduntant, well if he does then he can stay at home and look after the baby until he has a new job can't he, then when he gets a new job you could both take stock? Obviously may not be what you want to do and I certainly don't hope, for your sake, that you dh does lose his job. I think what I am trying to say in a muddled way is that you need to keep your options open. IF your dh is made redundant and you didn't go for this job you would be regretting it wouldn't you?

If you tell a prospective employer your are pregnant they aren't allowed to take that information into account when making their decision anyway, are they? So where is the advantage for either you or the employer in telling them at interview?

Tell them once you have a job offer, so they can't discriminate against you because of your pregnancy, but you are also being as helpful in terms of planning as you can possibly be.

@ MumNWLondon. Saying that all employers only look out for themselves in unfair. Some may do and there are plenty of faceless corporations who couldn't care less whether their employees lived or died, I know because I've worked for some of them.

However, we are almost family at my company. I took on old colleagues (ironically one came to me because her last company treated her badly when she was pregnant so she joined me when she finished her first mat leave) and friends of mine and I want them to be happy so they stay which benefits us all. There are many, many companies like mine who care about their staff, socialise with them, go to each others houses, its not an 'us and them' situation everywhere.

A friend of mine applied for a job while pregnant, she told them in the interview and she got the job. They thanked her for her honesty and were happy to sort out maternity leave. Made her much happier to return to the job.

Some people can't risk being honest about being pregnant at interview- if you need money you need a job- but I can appreciate how it can affect small employers.
However, in a school it shouldn't cause too much of an issue- teachers do come and go on maternity leave or long term sickness. The school I used to teach in (Secondary)had a Head of Department who told us she wasn't going to employ a woman of 'child bearing age' after having a teacher go on maternity leave and want to come back part time. Of course it's illegal to discriminate, but she could have got round it in so many ways- she was the one observing the lesson and interviewing etc.