To think GPs are on the whole useless

[yellowflowers]

Everytime I go to the GP they either confirm I have what I think I have or say that I haven't and then when I go back a week later still with symptoms tell me I was right all along. I really cannot see the point of them beyond being a barrier between us and prescription drugs and so they can refer us to specialists if you are clever enough to look up your own symptoms and treatments and know a good source from a bad source. I feel with the help of google I could do as good a job as most GOs - "oh hello Mr Smith, you have an itchy arm do you, you have 'itchyarmitis. Here's some itch cream and if that doesn;t work I will give you an itch pill" or "hello Ms Jones, you have found a lump have you. That's probably okay but I will send you to a specialist just in case it isn't."

Can you tell I have had an unproductive trip to gp today?

But really, I am yet to meet one who knows more than a relatively intelligent person with access to a computer and half a brain.

A GP friend of mine recently had a working day that included a full surgery list of patients, interrupted by someone having to be rushed to hospital with a suspected heart attack, then a home visit to a dying alcoholic who refused to let him call an ambulance. Took him a v. long time to persuade her. He also does an awful lot of work trying to improve local health services by encouraging the PCT to set up new schemes, avoiding crappy outpatients and ridiculously complicated referral pathways.

A lot of his work is listening to patients with very difficult lives and depressing chronic diseases which can't be mended. He does the best he can for them, trying different treatments and ways to make their lot a little better. I think he's worth every penny he earns - which is far less than £100k.

Edam - a lot of what you are describing could be done a darn site cheaper though by nurses or other health specialists (or non health specialists for sorting the crappy referal pathways etc).

For the money they are on GPs should be simply concentrating on the difficult complicated non obvious illnesses that patients present.

The 'social work' aspect can be done by others who have skills and training in that area (and are significantly cheaper).

like all professions some great,some not - you are the consumer,you chose which gp you wish to see.one whose skills you value.it is important to have rapport and working relationship with your gp.

good gp are skilled at differential diagnosis,creating rapport and personal interaction.if it is lacking try someone else in practice

however one cannot overgeneralise about all gp or their skills

Well my dad was treated by the GP with paracetemol and anti-acids for months and was told in words on one syllable that he wasn't really ill. No scan available until we paid to have it done privately. Terminal cancer, dead within 2 weeks. His GP / chocolate teaspot, spot the difference. And yes he would have died anyway but could have had some treatment to give him a little more time. Consequently I have very little faith and always push for a referral.

Oooh - some very negative biews about GP's here. I say you get good and bad in every profession but most GP's I have worked with work very very hard for their money. That's not to say there are not some crap ones out there - some are but most are not.

My own GP is lovely and takes time with her patients hence her clinics always run about 30 mins late. The miserable Scottish git in the next room gets his patients in and out rapidly - while I am waiting to see my lovely GP I keep a note of the time between the miserable scottish git calling patients in and them coming out - the record is less than 3 mins - time he retired I think.

thing is we can all recall good or bad stories of gp's.all unique and lived experience BUT that in itself doesn't make it applicable to all gp

i had a bad experience of conveyancing solicitor doesn't mean all solicitors are rotten

I really think you need to find a good one - good for you - and stick like glue. I had a terrible experience with refusal there was anything wrong except pregnancy/post pregnancy/breastfeeding issues... point blank refused to hear me saying I was sure it was not a pregnancy related problem - wouldn't refer me until a year post-natal. I went private and was told if I had been seen a month later I never would have walked again due to the very NOT pregnancy related diagnosis. It took that much grief to change GP's. I changed to another one in the practice who has been fantastic. He's managed my chronic disease and been an absolute pillar of support for all my family. Never want to lose him. So if you aren't happy - change, don't hang around.

YABVU. GPs are not useless.

YANBU

My dad (and most of my uncles) was a GP so I've had very little contact with them for the past 30+ years, as most ailments could either be treated at the kitchen table or safely ignored Since having DD two years ago, I've had a lot more contact with GPs (a different one each time usually) and have found them pretty much crap and far too swayed by personal prejudices and opinions. I appreciate that they do a difficult job and there are good GPs out but I've pretty much lost faith in them.

I've had a sore leg/hip for over a decade and was fobbed off by at least three GPs (including my own dad) and ended up giving up on medicine altogether and spending a fortune on osteopathy and acupuncture (neither of which worked). Eventually went back to a decent GP, who sent me for x-rays - which no one had bothered to do - and hmm fancy that I have hip dysplasia which needs surgery to correct it. Gah!

Although my experiences of the NHS as a carer have been generally pretty goddamn awful I will say our GP is very good, and I do think it is an immensely difficult job, albeit one that is - shall we say - "adequately" recompensed? Imagine if every 10 mins you had someone rock into your office with virtually any health complaint on the planet and you had to figure out what it might be and what to do. I couldn't hack that. Okay you could mostly rule out dengue fever and stuff but even so.

[Slightly controversial] but given the government seems to want to empower patients to choose their medical services, perhaps there should be alternatives to the traditional GP? More self-referral into specialisms, maybe, given patients have so much more information at their web-enabled finger tips than was the case in days of yore? For someone like dh, with a complex chronic condition, it's vital he sees the same GP each time to avoid timewasting excursions into 40 years of medical history. For me - couldn't care less, basically, occasionally have a preference for a female doctor but that's about it.

The other thing I would say is that GPs may be the fall guys in some cases for implementing PCT policy with regards to referrals. I'm sure none would fail to refer when the clinical need is clear but in less-clear cases, maybe they're trying to save cash-strapped PCTs money? I don't know anything about this but it seems possible. A bit of a 'don't shoot the messenger'.

PS Phil Hammond is good on dodgy GPs

All the GPs at our surgery are excellent (I don't use that word lightly)

YABVVU

If you have a problem with your GP, complain about them.

YANBU. I think healthcare has changed now because intelligent people have enough access to information that we can research our symptoms and afflictions quite well. We're also increasingly getting access to diagnostic equipment.

Was quite impressed with my GP who consulted Kellymom

There's a huge trade in the US in self-diagnosis and treatment through overseas pharmacies because the cost of care and prescription drugs is astronomical if your insurance isn't perfect. For example, I wanted to taper down my tablets from 20mg to 10mg. I used to buy the 20mg ones over the counter for about $19 a month. Then I found the 10mg version is bizarrely prescription only... and more than $100 for the same month's supply. Crazy!

Primary care doctors in the US will pretty much give you whatever you ask for medication-wise and treat basic conditions. They'll refer you to a specialist if there's really actually anything wrong with you.

The role of the GP is definitely under threat... this is the nature of the internet-enabled world. We have less need for information-brokers of any type whether it be estate agents, travel agents, doctors... But we can also get ourselves into a whole lot of trouble if we use the information poorly.

I'm afraid i think its most of the patients that are useless! The GPs I know have been telling me stories - it's quiet usual for people in our area to book a GP appointment because they want help filling out a housing benefit form or similar.

Given they seem to spend 90% of their time weeding out idiots / drug seekers / people wanting antibiotics for colds then I would think they'd be pleased to see the 10% of really sick people!

gp dont just poke itchy arms,have psychiatric,paediatric,and specialist interests/skills.balancing complex caseload management

if i were op i would try appts with other gp in surgery.

It would be really interesting to know if the 'customers' of each GP felt they were worth their wage of £100k plus out of the public purse.

Of course there would be loads that are worth it. But interestingly there will be loads that really are not.

The big question is what other profession could those rubbish professionals continue to earn a fortune and have 'customers' provided for them even though those 'customers' think they are crap. It just wouldnt happen in other areas of work and shouldnt happen with the NHS. A lot of people cant vote with their feet. Its difficult to always see a GP you think is ok in any practice as the odd good one tends to be very booked up, and its even harder rurally where you really havent got a choice.

I have generally been very lucky with GPs and always go if need help. Have taken dd a few times for not very much really but docs have always been very patient.
I have had one bad experience with a young female who diagnosed my pulmonary embolism as panic attacks repeatedly over a period of three months.
I think most are great but arrogance (as per the above lady) is a killer in GPs because as 'gatekepers' or traige they need to be very careful.

It's a bit like the Mumsnet haircut isn't it...

You can do stuff yourself and it's quite empowering but if you botch it up, you might want to find someone who knows what they're doing ;)

I've had some fantastic GPs and some really, really poor ones.

£100,000 isnt typical gp wage.that is gp partner.like all jobs pay is dependent upon exp,specialist skills,size of practice etc.gp can either be self employed (most are) or salaried by pct were salaries range from £50+k to £80+k dependent length of service and experience

YABVU. My DH is a GP and he worked bloody hard for 5 years of medical school and then the additional training after as did all his colleagues. Of course in any job there will be a range of clinical expertise but it is very foolish to think that gp's are only gatekeepers. They are an essential part of the system and its most likely that those who speak so negatively just havent found one they click with.

But the level of training cannot be compared to some joe bloggs sitting at home on a computer. No matter what you do you will never know as much as them. Like other people have said we are bloody lucky to have such a high level of an nhs in the uk. I appreciate some people may have had misdiagnoses but these are rare and just seem more common as people shout about them more.

Yummy - you may of course be slightly biased .........!

I LOVE my GP. I went to him last week with a sore neck and told him I needed some diazepam and some decent painkillers. I walked out 30 seconds later with a prescription. We understand each other perfectly and have a very healthy resepect for the others knowledge and ability. He trusts that I do know what I'm talking about most of the time, and I trust that when I dont actually know whats wrong that he will listen and work it out.
The rest of the practice is filled with patronising w*nkers though.