is this milk allergy/intolerance?

[kms123]

Hi
I intend taking my 7 month to the GP but thought ask here too.

I have been noticing at breakfast time particularly that he gets red blotches on face and neck- I have been giving baby porridge or oat cereal (mixed with water, but one ingredients is milk)or weetabix with milk. The rash disappears about half hour later but he does also have dry skin on trunk and nappy rash occasionally and I am now clicking that these all might be linked.

I did try putting drop milk on his skin today as a test and it came up red. So sounds like intolerance? So what do I use instead? So far he seems ok with yoghurt and cheese.

And as I am BF do I need to cut out too?

if it is dairy then yes, you will need to cut it out too.
I would maybe think it is more a casein problem than a lactose problem (casien is milk protien, lactose is milk sugar) but as yoghurt and cheese will contain both anyway...
it will depend also on how much he has too. if he has yoghurt and cheese every day then there should be some reaction. also with dairy (both casein and lactose) there is normally a digestive reaction too, runny disgusting poo for one!

look at this site

www.foodintol.com/dairy.asp

It sounds like it. There is a lot more lactose in milk than there is in equivalent amounts of cheese or yogurts. Everyone has a different tolerance level- so maybe he can tolerate a small amount but the levels in milk push him over the edge. This also might be why you didn't notice before you weaned him.

You can use Soya milk instead.

Thanks. Sounds like he can maybe tolerate a little. I actually don't tend to drink a lot of milk myself, just what is normally in cooking, tea and yoghurts, cheese etc.

It all makes sense now, the nappy rashes and dry skin which he would get and I thought due to bubble baths, creams etc.

I'll swap to soya milk. Do you think I can keep giving cheese, yoghurt etc.

Do you think I still need see GP for referrals?

Oh and he would have disgusting poo's sometimes too, I thought nothing of it, I thought just due to weaning on solids, but it could also be the intolerance.

Do I need to know whether it is lactose or casein if just trying to cut out milk?

not really, but casien will react with/on the skin whereas lactose reacts mainly in the digestive system. so going by what you said, I would imagine its casien rather than lactose. so soya is ok, my son was bought up on soya as a formula milk and yoghurts etc. but for now, while BF'ing, you will need to cut dairy out to to be on the safe side

KMS

My son has cow's milk protein allergy - apparently very common in Western children. It manifests itself in many ways, but in DS's case, he comes out instantaneously in red blotchy rash over face and neck.He is on a prescription formula milk called Neocate and does very well on it. He was diagnosed at 5 months and is now a healthy 14 month old.

He eats soy yoghurt and dairy free spread but often in cases of CMP allergy, different types of dairy can be tolerated sometimes. So, some children could eat cheese and yoghurt but react to milk. My DS cannot have any dairy at all. We don't know if he is lactose intolerant as well because hospital messed up tests.

Apart from having to be very prepared when we go out as EVERYTHING has milk and cheese. It's nothing to worry about unduly as most children outgrow it by age 5.

soya milk can provoke more intolerances that cows milk.... try goats milk first instead...

I agree about soy milk as the jury is not out on the effects of phytoestrogens on young boys, but goats, sheep and buffalo milk can also cause protein allergies. Best to get your son tested.

goats milk still has animal protiens in it, soya has veg proteins. the symptoms may be similar if an intolerance occurs but are caused by completely different mechanisms. soya is more akin to a peanut type allergy (both leguminous plants). goats milk is better tasting than soya but I still think soya is best

cornishzulu the arguments about soya milk for babies/young boys have mostly been debunked now. SMA, one of the biggest infant formula producers have a very good product out that has undergone stringent testing. phytoestrogens are unlike oestrogens in that they are short lived and are only used if needed. my son is 5, healthy as an ox, muscular and strong, all the things that soya milk in boys is said to make bad. I agree he should be tested, and until then, best to avoid anything like that at all by mum and son but if needed, soya would be best as it is the least likely to cause problems.

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yes but 60% of children allergic to dairy will be allergic to goats and 45% to sheep!!

and have you ever tasted rice milk? yuck , much worse than soya and useless for most things apart from drinking

Pitchounette can you tell me where this research about avoiding soya now too comes from? the last research I read was the debunking of the GP's myth that soya would make young boy babies grow boobs etc and that soya was not the problematic food source most believed it to be.

Taste is not the issue here as babies have no reference point. My DS struggled with Neocate because he had become accustomed to BM but we persevered and now he loves it. I make it into smoothies, milkshakes and use it for cooking and baking.

I have never tasted neocate but I have tasted rice milk and can't stand the stuff. my son spat it out and refused to drink any rice milk when we had problems with him when weaning, and I must say not one child I have seen ever liked rice milk but I suppose there must be some out there that will. rice milk has little substance for use in most cooking situations and has not fat or protein to enable it to become stiff for things like smoothies, it is something like 85-90% water!!

Misi

Having exhaustively researched the soy milk debate, I can't say that I am convinced either way. A great deal of research promoting the benefits of soy milk was sponsored by the powerful soy producers lobby. On the other hand, much of Asia drinks soy milk without apparent ill effects but there simply aren't enough longitudinal studies to tell what the long term effects are.

Pitchounette is right about soy/cow's milk allergies. The doctor who works with Annabel Karmel has written on this topic in her books

I didn't say she was wrong, but if only 30% of diary sufferers are affected by soya but 60% are affected by goats and 45% by sheep, the logical way to go is soya, less chance of reaction. I do not take notice of blatant producer sponsered studies, (which is why I discount 95% of the so called studies into HRT). I have read many japanese studies on this where long term effects are known, their children have grown up on soya milk and many other soya products for thousands of years to no ill effects except lower rates of certain types of cancer, lower rates of heart disease and higher rates of fertility.

Hi Misi

Yes, have seen those Japanese studies too. The question remains: are the results generalisable to children in the West where dietary norms are so different?

humans may differ on the outside by colour, looks etc, but body chemistry is the same.
admitted there are enzyme differences, 90% of westerners can tolerate dairy whereas 90% of african and 70% of east asian people cannot. (but that does change when those people of african or asian decent (sp?) are born in a western country and live here)
soya is not difficult to digest, cow milk, western wheat etc are far harder to digest as they take enzymes that are not a basic product of our bodies. babies do produce lactase for a while when breast feeding, but stop producing it after weaning but as we rely on cows milk so much, babies have (mostly but not all) developed the capacity to start producing again. this usually starts several months after weaning which is why a lot of babies go through a short period of digestive problems when weaning. the ability of the human body and digestive system to adapt is fantastic, if it weren't, we would not be around today. if we can adapt to digest difficult foods, our more complicated enzymatic system will be able to cope with easier to digest foods on the whole (which is why a much smaller percentage of babies react to soya than to animal products like dairy or goats and sheep). soya is not for everyone admitted, and when there are doubts like the OP, then the best thing is to abstain until tested, but I still stand by that if you are allergic to casein (as the OP child almost certainly is) instead if lactase, soya is the best way to go for milky products. rice milk has no protein, no fat no substance, not what a baby needs. if it were a lactose problem then my reply may have been different depending on any answers to other questions I would have asked.

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Wow thanks for all your replies. I am going to abstain completely from dairy right now and go to GP on Monday for a dietician referral. I shall start investigating/ researching now about all the info on soy/rice milk etc. I did actually buy in supermarket today to have a look/taste.

It does sound like the milk protein allergy as it does react on his skin.

Cheers for all your very helpful replies, much appreciated.

just skimming this but haven't seen the link between soy milk and nut allergy mentioned. Ask your gp about nutramigen, neocate or pepti Junior instead. Soy allergy is very difficult to live with.

I mentioned it earlier tatt, its because both soya and peanuts are from the same family of plants, legumes