re-introducing wheat/gluten - any tips?

[hobnob57]

We have a GI appointment coming up next month and have been asked to try dd (21mths) with wheat beforehand. With dairy we were told to try increasing the diary very gradually (by 1tsp yoghurt a day). Do we do the same for wheat? Does anyone have any experience of this? What did you try - bread?

yes, not personally but with clients of mine.
bread is the easiest but has other things in like salt, sugar and flour improvers.
one wheat product at a time. I prefer something like whole shredded wheat cereals but then you would have to use milk so two intolerances together may be a bit misleading. stick with the bread but go for a wholemeal type one preferably organic. just a small piece one day, then gradullay build up. this gives the body/gut time to adjust

I have problems with wheat intolerance but am not coeliac. If your child still has problems with wheat I recommend asking about Biocare Glutenzyme Plus, an enzyme formulation that helps digest gluten.

tatt, not at 21 months old you wouldn't

well they are big capsules - but I still feel its worth asking about enzyme supplementation as the hospital may be able to suggest something similar. Mandi Mart (a website used by many families with children)may have something suitable.

I am not suggesting that the OP goes and buys them straight out but that they consult their doctor. Report of enzyme supplementation here www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060630083712.htm

although I think that's a different enzyme.

as a practitioner and many of my fellow practitioners usually agree, 21 months old is not suitable for enzyme supplementation unless under strict supervision and there is no other alternative. in this case there is, do not eat wheat. but that is not the point here, the OP asked about how to re-introduce wheat to see what happens and this was asked ofr by the consultant, if you give enzymes that help digest you defeat the object of the exercise and self medding on alternatives and supps for a 21 month old is not advisable as it is not advisable for adults or other children either really.

Thanks for the advice misi. I give her cereal (GF) in Pepti formula at the moment so I could try pinches of weetabix I suppose. I have to say I'm dreading it as when we went wheat/GF at 5mths she had extreme colic, explosive vinegary-smelling nappies and raging reflux. I have convinced myself she is coeliac but can't bear the thought of going through months of symptoms before getting a diagnosis. I know I'm jumping the gun and should get on with trying to reintroduce it and seeing what happens. I'm just not ready for sleepless nights again!

kids at 5 months old have intolerances to many foods as their bodies don't know what the food is if that makes sense, we all have to get used to the many and varied foods we eat. some react differently to others as you have experienced. all kids become lactose intolerant after weaning did you know? then luckily in the west, many babies start producing the lactase for themselves again and can tolerate diary, a few don't and those from africa and the far east in particular have less chance of re starting the lactase production. I have seen kids violently react to wheat/gluten at 5,6, 7 months or so when first introduced into the diet only for 12 months later to have no problem at all and I hope this happens for you so many things contain gluten, even most chocolate

vinegary smelling nappies and raging relux sounds something slightly different to me though, perhaps her digestive system was not ready for the more solid of foods and was more of an acidity problem. fingers crossed for you.

Misi I'd love to agree with you but all these reactions were via my breastmilk, not solids. Does that make a difference?

I got a bit confused then as I thought you said you had to go gluten and wheat free at 5 months and there is no gluten or wheat in breast milk but in some circumstances you can pass on the free floating protiens through the milk to your daughter but again, this is not usual.
if thats the case then, reacting to your milk, it could just have been a lactose intolerance. babies produce lactase in response to mums milk but stop when they are weaned, then a now majority of western babies start producing again to deal with dairy, but some don't. it may have been that your daughter wasn't producing any lactase from the start which is rare but not unheard of. are there any ethnic diversities in the family?

I'm not an expert (although I am a coeliac), but even if you could introduce an enzyme to help with the digestion of the allergic substance, then this would mask the true effect that the gluten say was having on the gut?

I would give the gastro/hospital a quick call and clarify just what is the best way of reintroducing the wheat/gluten.

I have been reading this with interest as DS has an allergy to wheat (nothing else) and I was told by paediatrician that it was coming through my breastmilk. Is this not usual then?

it depends on what research you read. I have read equal numbers of studies that say yes you can pass through milk or no you can't.

if gluten is not broken down in the gut the whole protein passes through into the blood where your body identifies it as foreign and attacks it giving the allergy like symptoms. if the body is working normally, then the glutem should not be assimilated into the milk, other theories suggest that a whole glutemn molecule is too big too pass into the milk producing tissue via the blood, and yet others say that the allergy response can influence the milk and that cause the probs. no real research has gone on, but the anti ability to pass gluten on getsmy vote at the moment due to the quality of the little research done whereas the pro passing lobby research is quite crap.

if you want to be sure and you have not managed to cut all gluten out of your diet (very difficult as it gets everywhere, it is even purposely placed in chocolate as a binding agent) I would suggest the glutenzyme product from biocare www.biocare.co.uk/ecommerce/productDetails.aspx?prodCode=14730 but also I would suggest you get advice from a qualified nutritionist too as I do not know about your med history.

misi, I don't know what you do for a living, but if it was as easy as popping an enzyme pill than surely there wold be no need for coeliacs like myself to follow a restrictive diet?

I'm afraid I'm with Hoochie here. When I cut out gluten from my diet at 5 mths BF, almost overnight dd was sleeping right through the night, the spasming colic stopped and so did those nappies... And I felt a whle ot better too! A week later I ate cocktails sausages and the symptoms returned with a vengeance.

As a biology teacher I found it hard to believe myself (it's still a mystery to me how even milk proteins affect wee ones via breast milk - I would have thought that the mum's stomach enzymes break them down) but my daughter has proved me wrong.

I keep meaning to get myself tested but have not yet got round to it. I did feel much better GF and had virtually no bowel pain or wind. I'd like to soon because we are ttc and I've already had one MC, but part of me feels a bit hypochondriac about it all.

hobnob, not hypochondriac at all . And at least with a diagnosis you can get GF stuff on prescription and care suitable for your situation; coeliacs are more prone to a whole host of other things, like osteoporosis, diabetes, non hodgkins lymphoma and recurrent miscariages. And apparently at least 1 in 100 people have undiagnosed coeliac disease.

Funnily enough, my symptoms really stepped up a gear after I'd had my first baby as well, but looking back they were there, albeit mildly, all my life.

Thanks guys. Must remember to book an appointment.... does lack of short term memory count as a symptom?

Will try the gentle intro of gluten soon Misi. Our appointment isn't until early Nov so I'll maybe start things in mid-Oct when I've got some time off work.

Misi you sound like you know some things - on a totally different tack, do all babies have a soft bulge from sternum to above their belly buttons when they lift their head from a lying position? It's like dd has separated abs like mine! [again a mild feeling of paranoia - wild thoughts of undaignosed hernia linked to reflux from no medical basis whatsoever)

there is a vast difference between someone who may be passing gluten through breast milk to a baby and a coeliac LackaDAISYcal, a very big large vast difference. I replied to the OP and not about coeliac problems, please don't self diagniose or self med on my reply, coeliacs are treated very differently and have many more complications and neccessities. I will write more later after my son has been fed who is screaming at me for dinner!!

I don't really feel the need to be patronised in such a way misi, I'm all too aware of what being a coeliac is all about thank you . The OP suggested that she herself has felt better since going GF, so I was suggesting that she get tested, that's all.

I asked about the enzymes out of interest more than anything else.....I would love it to be that simple.

We appear to be talking at cross purposes and obviously my experience as a coeliac isn't welcome on here by you so I shall leave it to the experts (although you haven't clarified exactly what your experience is)

hobnob, I hope you get things sorted and that the challenge works out ok for both you and your DD

hobnob, I do not know enough about babies as such to be able to say much, but I know in some of my sports clients that (men especially) have a similar sort of bulge when doing sit ups like this. I have it myself, but the bulge is not rock hard but it is not soft either, it is something to do with the muscle structure but it is not something I have gone into much as no-one has really complained about it and sports nutrition is my forte not muscle structure unfortunately. I have heard of one lady who did have a separated ab muscle but there were other noticable problems that went with it but she was in her 30's I beleive so the muscle structure will probably be different. I doubt it is anything sinister as baby would probably be in pain if it were but as always with babies and children, if in doubt go ask a doctor to put your mind at rest.
apparently, I am just as qualified as a doctor but the silly questions I still ask of my GP is always to be sure and safe!!

sorry LackaDAISYcal wasn't meant to be patronising. I find this area of nutrition very difficult as if you get 6 doctors and 6 natural practitioners together you will get 12 different views as to what the cause is and what the treatment is.

Doctors I am told used to spend 2 hours out of 7 years training on nutrition (I believe this is a day now but I hope that any doctors on here can say I am wrong as even 1 day is pitiful) I on the other hand have spent around a year out of 4 so far on nutrition. (for me nutrition also covers digestion which is what you will know is your major problem).

I probbbly sounded condescending to you as you must be one of the few coeliacs that actually know about thier problem. By this I mean that many coeliacs, IBS, and all the other digestive problematic people who I have seen often know what not to eat because they have been told this but know little else, it is like the diabetics that have been told what not to eat but cannot think for themselves about other foods by looking at ingredients etc if that makes sense?

many people also do not understand the difference between a coeliac, someone with IBS, leaky gut syndrome, simple intolerances, allergic reactions to food, diverticulitis, to name a few of the different gut disorders out there.

enzymatic supplentation is useful for some, highly not reccommended for others which is why I always say that you need professional advice on these problems. Enzymes now come in myriads of forms. although not licenced as such in this country you can now get sucrase OTC for those with sucrase isomaltase deficiency syndrome (although again I would never reccommend self medding on this as it can cause as many probs as it solves if not used correctly) for you as a coeliac without knowing your med history, I could not say whether enzymatic supps will work or help as it is the condition of your gut wall that is the important and deciding factor here. glutenzyme can help those with a gluten intolerance that has not progressed the damage to the gut wall too much, but then the argument is between researchers that a gluten intolerance only becomes a problem to the rest of your body and not just your gut if you have an accompanying problem called leaky gut syndrome as if your gut wall is OK, then the undigested gluten should not be able to pass through very well, but most doctors do not agree that there is anything called leaky gut and it is just a myth??????????? so you can see the problem, your doc may well be well up on this, but other docs are sadly lacking in this field.

many people do feel better by going gluten and wheat free whether thay are intolerant or not. the simple carb content alone of most wheat based products can help candida thrive which causes many other problems. candida and excess simple carb energy (converted to excess blood sugar which can create Blood sugar imbalances that can cause mood swings, appetite misalignment, and the other symptoms often associated with hyperactivity) can cause the body to react in many ways that make you feel like crap. candida like this can cause a dearth of friendly bugs which lowers your nutrient intake making you feel like crap too. I could go on as I am sure you are getting the picture about but I will not assault your eyes much more on this as I could go on for hours about gut health and food intake.

my experience is 8 years in the natural health trade, qualified herbalist with nutrition quals too, studying for a full med degree and about to choose my phD subject but I never say dismiss other peoples inputs (although I agree it sounds like I do sometimes) as you never stop learning so I am sorry you felt your views not welcome.

me too, I'd just had words with DH before posting and was feeling prickly and over sensitive

I think it's all pretty fascinating really, and when I was diagnosed I did loads of research on it as I hadn't even heard of it before, let alone knew anyone who was a sufferer.

the point about feeling better in general giving up gluten/wheat is a good one; before I was diagnosed I used to suffer from recurrent thrush, athletes foor and was very very sweaty, to the point that I used prescirption anti-perspirants. I never get any of that now, basically because I have cut down the amount of yeasty things I consume by about 95%. I tend to avoid GF bread as it's generally rank.

The enzyme thing fascinates me as my gluten intolerance appears to be very mild in that I can tolerate small amounts without seemingly any effects, and interestingly being pregnant, as I am at the minute, appears to act as a barrier to any gluten effects at all. It would be interesting to see whether it would make a difference to me, but unfortunately without another gut biopsy I doubt I would ever know. Also I don't think my GP would be too keen on sending me for another biopsy, and I can't go private as it's now excluded from my health insurance policy

I would hazard a guess then that your gut problem may be more to do with leaky gut than intolerances with the intolerances as a contributor and not the main cause if you had candida problems even mildly most of your life.
it would be fascinating for me to know what your biopsy revealed, but being pregnant does alter your gut tremendously. extra mucal protection, increased screening etc, and it is probably the extra mucus that is reducing the effects by allowing less undigested food through, this is an immune response to help reduce the overall rejection factor (where the body lowers immunity to reduce the risk of feotal rejection) and a slow down in the digestion process to allow more nutrient absorbption which allows the food to be exposed to enzymes for longer meaning less chance for protiens to get through undigested.

the NIMH, national institute of medical herbalists are the main regulatory body for herbalists in the UK, www.NIMH.org.uk.

on here you will find a facilty to look up a herbalist near to you. when getting the list have a look at the experience of those listed (look for a nutritionally qualified herbalist) and if in doubt you can e mail the NIMH with specific requirements if this is something you would like to look into. they can then go through enzymatic supplementing with you as although docs can do this virtually none know about them.

hope this helps a bit and good luck (with hubby too )