weaning an 'allergiky' baby.

[vitomum]

i would really appreciate some advice here.

i started weaning ds2 when he turned 6 months. he has been bf till then. we started with the usual - rice, fruit, porridge, mixed with some formula or cows milk. we are talking minimscule ammounts here, a couple of teaspoons.

within a couple of weeks his skin was really bad - red and rough all over. my GP says it looks like an allergic reaction, most likely from the milk, and advised to stick to just fruit. He reckoned the milk would be out his system in a week and we could try again.

He has had just fruit for the last 3 days - banana, advocado, papaya, mango. Today his skin is worse. I am so upset about that.

I'm thinking i should stop everything now for at least a week? then just start with only one thing at a time for a few days - pear or apple?

does that sound a good plan?

The other thing doing my head in is that if he is allergic to fruit is that serious? i mean, does it mean he's gonna be allergic to all sorts of stuff too?

also, the demand / responsibility to bf now feels huge. From being a dream newborn he is now feeding 2 hourly day and night but at this stage what else can i do?

TIA

Yes, he has always had some small dry skin patches so i did initially wonder if it was just a flar up of that? But the GP did say that this rash look like an allergic one rather than an eczema one. Is there a difference? Then again that GP also told me that rice has gluten in it so it does make you wonder.

go back to sole breastfeed fro a while and treat his skin as though its eczema. it may be an idea to do some BLW with just stalks of brocolli etc and avoid stuff mixed with milk for a little while.

it does sound more like eczema than allergy, or a mixture of both.

give his little gut a chance to recover and then restart?

cheers, am quite confused by the difference / relationship between eczema /allergy /intolerance etc.

could the food have triggered eczema? I've got the oilatun stuff now so that seems to sooth it a bit.

i really like the idea of BLW but so far he has put nothing in his mouth. I suppose i just wanted the quick fix to sleeping that the baby rice mush could have brought - that's so out the window now.

Vitomum

an allergy is any reaction that is caused when the immune system responds inappropriately to a benign substance. Allergic reactions can vary widely from person to person but include eczema, asthma, hives, vomiting, diarrhea -all the way to analyphalaxis.

An intolerance is the inability of the gut to digest a certain substance eg lactose intolerance - can lead to vomiting, bloating, diarrhea etc but the immune system is not involved.

I come from a very 'allergiky' family so I weaned ds1 one food at a time (with delayed introduction of the more allergenic foods). This didn't stop him having allergies but at least I know what they are. Will do the same w. ds2 in a few months.

Because eczema takes longer to appear than, say, hives it tends to take longer to disappear too. I'd advise you to cut right back down on the foods you offer your lo for a couple of weeks and see if that helps. Eczema is not just caused by food allergy but it often is.

och poor you, vito. i can give you my unthumbed copy of AK if you want it. how's the bold boy today? and when are you coming over? we're doing some painting so have warned AS that we might show up there.

Hi... it is a bit of a long time since I posted about weaning but what I remember about the guidelines for weaning children likely to develop allergies...

-No glutten before six months
-No egg before a year (yolks are fine but not whites)
-No nuts before 3 yrs old, or five if there are allergies in the family
-No orange juice in early stages of weaning
-No cow's milk during the first year.

• Fish, particularly non white types, are also very allergenic, probably good to avoid in the early stages of weaning.

-No kiwi fruit, tomatos, citrus,strawberries until the season after he is 1 yo.

DS has severe allergies and a few intolerances (which are delayed allergic reactions that take some time to build up).
When I introduced raw milk to his diet his eczema went wild, but he "seemed ok" when it was used for cooking as long as it was "cooked" rather than added raw to cereal, purees, etc. I put "seemed OK" as we didn't realise how much it was affecting him until we totally removed it from his diet: the asthma, permanent bloating and constipation were gone within a couple of weeks.

And introduce one thing at the time, so if something is giving a bit of trouble you can easily identify it. For the time being I think it would be a good idea to be back to breastfeeding for a few days and then start again.

Hi vitomum

Lots of good advice on this thread. I think, in your shoes, I'd do as misdee suggests (and you yourself in your OP): cut right back to breastmilk and start again slowly when his skin is a bit better.

My dd1 has eczema and was very badly allergic to cows milk and we were ultra-careful about introducing new foods. As wb has already said, you won't prevent allergy by cutting out certain foods or introducing them late; but it makes a lot of sense to introduce things one by one so that you can easily work out what he reacts to.

One thing to be aware of, because this was definitely the case with dd1, is not to confuse true allergic reactions with non-allergic skin reactions.

For example, if dd1 ate chocolate (or anything with cows milk in), she would get an urticarial rash (ie hives) straight away, and then later would complain of a sore tummy and her eczema would go mad - all good signs of allergy.

But if she ate some tomato or grapefruit or other quite acidic fruit, the skin around her mouth would get quite red, but it didn't cause her any other trouble.

It seems as if her skin was just sensitive to the acid and it wasn't an allergy. Once we twigged onto this, we put barrier cream around her mouth at mealtimes and then she could eat whatever fruit she liked.

It was an important distinction for us, because if we'd regarded the "skin sensitivity" food as more allergies and cut out all of those things from her diet, she would have had a much less balanced diet.

Good luck- let us know how you get on.

My advice will depend on where the rash is - so where is the rash?

Good question from twentypence.

By the way, vitomum - one of my very first posts as a newbie on MN was asking for help with eczema and I had great advice from twentypence.

I keep meaning to tell you, twentypence, and keep forgetting - just to pick one example - your suggestion of oats in the bath worked brilliantly for dd1 and we did this every bathtime until quite recently (and only stopped because her skin was so much better).

thanks so much for the other replies everyone. It is a complicated area isn't it with no hard and fast rules it seems. Ds has not had anything but breast milk now for about 4 days, although i did notice the last bit of papaya only made a reappearance in his nappy yesterday! so i'm thinking i really need a good 2-3 weeks back on just breast milk - i will aspire to longer though. I will def go down the route of just one thing at a time for a few days (as of course i did with the PFB, but not poor ds2). I've now also got that Brostoff and Gamlin book which i saw recommended on another thread.

Twneypence and welliemum, the rash is all over his torso. The whole torso is red and angry and feels very rough. I went back to the dictor this morning as some spot like things have appeared on his limbs, neck and face over the weekend (despite nothing but BM). The doctor thinks that this might be totally unrelated and that he might have hand, foot and mouth in addition? He also swabbed for signs of secondary infection on the main rash bit. Poos ds2, it feels like there is quite a way to go before this is properly under control.

thanks again all

Poor little love. Bathe him in oat juice (put oats in a sock and run the water through them squeezing the sock) very soothing.

It could be that he has some sort of virus thing and the two together have just blown out his system.

Ds was shocking when he had banana - he got secondary infections everywhere and was a complete mess - your doctor sounds as if he is on to it anyway - so that's a positive.

Isn't there a schedule for weaning allergicky babies on Aitch's blog? There certainly used to be, but am wondering if it's gone as she hasn't mentioned it on this thread. I would take a look on there for it, even if you don't want to do blw.

Just my experience in case it helps (I'm always asking for help on here so for once I'm paying back!)
My son has had severe chronic eczema from 3m onwards, now 8mo and finally it is better controlled, although still there. Had allergy tests which showed up all dairy, egg and nuts, but ok for wheat and fish and soya.
So I was maybe lucky in that I knew to avoid certain things and play it safe. Here is a list of nice things that haven't caused him any problems - they're all different of course. I've fed most of them as puree and some finger foods:

• butternut
• sweet potato (with cinnamon, or spinach and leek)
• apple and beetroot
• lentils (funny texture but go down if mixed with smooth carrot and swede!)
• peas
• fruits - banana, apple, pear, mango

For breakfast take care as some baby cereal has added milk. Can get 'Plum' brand porridges in sainsbury which are milk free. Can also use ready brek (pure oats) or buy millet flakes if you want to avoid wheat.

Then once I wanted to add some more protein:

• chicken and mango
• lamb and sweet potato
• mackerel and apple

To make up for not being able to have yoghurt and milky puds, I make rice pudding with ground rice and either soy formula or breast milk - I add date puree and sometimes some cocoa to make it chocolate flavour - just so I feel that he has a treat and isn't missing out! He does love this.
NB I use Wysoy SOya formula as I know he isn't allergic to soya and I only use it in cooking, not as main drink (there are some concerns about effects of too much soy on young babies). Dietician says we might need to be on Nutramigen 2 later on if it is forming main drink.

Trouble is, even now I don't really know whether the supposed allergies are connected to the eczema! I'm just playing it safe and going to wait for re-tests at the hospital and advice on when I can introduce things.

there's still one there, CSWS, it's a really hard-core dutch weaning schedule and nothing to do with BLW, might be worth a look Vito. although presumably it'll be in your book as well. how's ds2 today, has it calmed down any?

thanks again all.

yes twentypence i think his wee immune system is struggling right now. he's still a wee cheery thing though

thanks for those combos heliotrope. they do sound nice actually. i will def have to get into the mindset of what he can have, rather than what he can't.

Aitch, today is the first day it has calmed down. much less red, so i feel then end of this outbreak is in sight. my mum has also got Emu Oil - some article in the daily record i think!

thanks again all.

yes twentypence i think his wee immune system is struggling right now. he's still a wee cheery thing though

thanks for those combos heliotrope. they do sound nice actually. i will def have to get into the mindset of what he can have, rather than what he can't.

Aitch, today is the first day it has calmed down. much less red, so i feel then end of this outbreak is in sight. my mum has also got Emu Oil - some article in the daily record i think!

oh yes, always first choice when it comes to medica advice. pah to The Lancet and the BMJ, bunch of bigheads. good to hear it's calmed down. i'm still hoping, as a loving auntie, that it's a virus and nothing to worry about long-term. [head] [sand]

Hi my son has multiple food allergies, it can take days or even weeks for a food to pass through their systems and they can appear to be getting worse before they get better sometimes with regards to the eczema.

Try introducing new foods one at a time over a period of days and gradually build up.
Go for really bland basics first like rice for afew days, different veggies, meat.

Avoid dairy, gluten, wheat, tomatoes, citrus fruits, eggs for just now. These are renound for being highly allergenic.

Hope Lo is okay, its a tough road but with a bit of help from others you will feel much more confident in time

I would go back to exclusive bf again and wait until he shows an interest in food before offering him finger foods and letting him feed himself.

A really good weaning/food introduction schedule is Susannah Oliviers from What Should I Feed my Baby? which goes;

Age 6 - 8 months

a. Vegetables (except the deadly nightshade group - see i. below)

b. Fruits (except citrus)

c. Pulses and beans

d. Rice, buckwheat, quinoa and millet

e. Poultry, meat and fish *

f. Egg yolks

Age 9 - 14 months

g. Oats, barley and rye

h. Live yoghurt

i. Deadly nightshade family (potatoes, tomatoes, aubergines, peppers)

j. Whole eggs *

k. Soya products*

l. Shellfish*

Age 15 - 24 months

m. Oranges

n. Wheat

o. Dairy products

p. Seeds and nuts (not peanuts)

Age 5 years

q. Peanuts ** The foods marked with an asterisk, fish, eggs, soya, shellfish, seeds, nuts and peanuts, are most commonly associated with the classical food allergy (as opposed to food intolerance or sensitivity). Do remember that the protein component of any food can provoke this sort of reaction. I have erred on the side of caution and chosen to put these foods in at stages when most children can tolerate them. If you are happy to take the risk, you may want to introduce them a bit earlier as they are all good nutritious foods. For example, I chose to give my son finely ground sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds and fresh nuts from the age of around 8 months as I believed the risk was small, but the nutritional benefits were many. On the other hand I was very strict with grains and dairy because of the far greater risk of sensitivity becoming a problem.

Peanuts are highest on the list of foods that may trigger a serious allergy and, if being super-cautious, are probably best left until the age of five years. They are a concentrated source of lectins, which are protein molecules that bind to human cells. This may be why they can cause such a serious reaction. If your child tends towards allergy, or comes from a family that does, then it may be wise to protect him from this small risk. Be aware also that peanut or groundnut oil can provoke the same reaction and the fact that it is found in such a diverse range of products may be the reason why the number of children who are becoming sensitised is on the increase. Parents who are concerned about the small risk of this, and other, life threatening allergies should seek guidance from their doctor or one of the allergy associations.

I followed this schedule with both mine and it wasn't that hard, and I feel it's better to be safe than sorry, especially if, like me, you know there is a high risk of allergy etc in your family. Annabel Karmel has no nutritional qualifications at all, so isn't really a good person to take advice from, but Susannah Olivier has studied nutrition and does actually know what she is talking about.

BLW is a good way to go with "allergiky" babies as they seem to have a knack of avoiding the stuff they will react to. It's not uncommon for such babies to stay exclusively bf for longer than 6 months, which probably not what you want to hear, sorry!!!

Monkies

thanks for that. i have nevere heard of that deadly nightshade group. i knew to hold of on tomoatos but potatos! that's a surprise.

actually, now i am resigned to exclus BF again its not so bad, and i agree that there is something in that idea that babies will avoid what they can't tolerate

I know GFord is hated but her weaning plan worked very well for both my allergic children.

It's very simple and easy to follow. We had to stop weaning altogether when dd was about 10 months (can't remember exact age, bad mother!) and go back to the start again. It was a real chore and we had to introduce foods slowly and carefully but it worked in the end.

Stick to the plain easy foods to start with and avoid all the allergenic ones like eggs, wheat, dairy, tomatoes etc. (obviously nuts but I'm sure you're doing that anyway).

The easy rule to remember is to never introduce 2 new foods together (otherwise you never know what they are reacting to!). One food at a time, in small quantities first and work from there.

Good luck!