if you are a member of the anaphylactic campaign

[tatt]

do you support their approach to labelling? They prefer "may contain nuts" to the more detailed labbeling used by some companies e.g. produced in a factory using nuts but on a different line or tesco's "no nuts in factory, no nuts in recipe, can't guarantee ingredients". They say it is less confusing. What do you think?

I'm rather annoyed that they never ask the membership what we think.

I used to work for a food manufacturer and we took advice from the anaphylaxis society (not sure if this is the same as the anaphylaxis campaign?) regarding labelling.
Their advice to us at the time was to use the statement ' this product was made in a factory which also manufactures foods contaning nuts' as apposed to the 'may contain nuts' statement as they said their members preferred this.

this was supposed to give the consumer more information regarding possible nut contamination. Personally I don't think it does, but when you use nuts in a factory you can't gurantee 100% nut free. I think sometimes food manufacturers / reatailers get a hard time regarding labelling when a lot of time time they are trying to do the right thing by following advice from bodies such as this.

problem with "may contain nuts" is that a lot of companies ( and restaurants) slap it on everything because they can't be bothered to find out. It becomes so devalued that some nut allergic people risk it. I've found nut warnings on green salad and beansprouts and I know Nairn have just changed some of their labelling because they can't be sure the ingredients aren't stored with nuts. If a company is willing to tell me there are nuts in the factory then I know the cross contamination risk is higher.

Th anaphylaxis campaign is its formal title but people sometimes forget and call it a society. Don't think there's any other body around the place that is focused on the anaphylactic.

I think the only way to be certain that there is a risk is to ask the retailers / manufacturers themselves - I know the company I worked for had a nut policy in place that involved our suppliers tracing back all their ingredients to find out if there was a possibilty of cross contamination.
I think most major retailers have a policy in place like this and ask this certainly of their own brand suppliers, however I know that is not possible with restaurants and smaller brands.

I've heard of people who do that, mabel1973, but it just isn't practical. The information can change the following week so you could have a false sense of security. Also I want my child to have a normalish social life and she needs to be able to check quickly anything she's offered outside the home.

its worth remembering that food prodouced today is very complicated.
It is difficult for manufactuers to trace all their ingredients, esp when you start to consider the cross comtamination of products in shared containers travelling from ship/plane/ factory .
Chocolate bean plup for eg is sent in a big truck and travels like cement. Its very expensive and diffcult to make sure that trace exposure is completely gareanteed.
Then of course there is storage, until product is required. It depends on a very allergy savy manager to be alert for cross contamination.

As for labelling all different levels of society need to read the allergy warnings. I think tesco warnings are too long and complicated. A child or teenager( or for e.g a partially sighted person) is not going to concentrate on these labels.
A simple nut trace warning is enough for the product to be put back on the shelf.
Which in many cases is the best place for them.

what you are saying then, williamsmummy, is that all food you have not grown or reared yourself should have a "may contain nuts" warning on it because its impossible to guarantee its nut free. An increasing number of manaufacturers are doing just that - labelling everything may contain nut traces. As we avoid anything with one of those labels there is a rapidly declining number of foods we can eat. If tesco were forced to change their labels I imagine they'd join the crowd rushing to label everything "may contain nuts". For some of these products the risk is probably no greater than the meat I buy at the local butcher - where I can't be sure he hasn't eaten nuts before butchering it, or the veg from the local greengrocer.

My child handles tesco's labels very easily. I agree there is an issue over size of warnings but I'd favour "no nuts in factory" or "Factory uses nuts".

If the trend to label everything continues we will get to the stage where we have to eat food with a "may contain nuts" warning or become self sufficient!

Tatt,
there are two problems with the nut warning labels. I am sure that some manufactuers are just covering their backs, but many are not. As consumers we cant tell, unless we do some research. And thats a full time job.

However, personally we dont buy anything with a nut warning on it,( my son not tree nut allergic any more) and so far we are all well fed. I dont grow my own veg or meat, and dont even have plants in the house, because I dont have green fingers!! ( I just touch a potted plant and it dies)
The other problem with nut warnings are the fact that many ignore them, for the above reason, and lots of hospital reactions have been caused by a young adult ignoring a warning and eating a product with nut traces.
So yes getting proper warnings is important, and is a life saver.
I agree with you to some extent that nothing is 100% safe in life, thats why we carrry epi pens.
Life goes on, as long as we have the meds with us.

As more foods are plastered with nut warnings the risk that someone will ignore them increases. Yes its still possible to eat at home without touching foods with a "may contain" warnings - but the range of food you can eat diminishes all the time. It also becomes increasingly difficult to eat outside the home and for other people to cater for your child. If the food is not actually at any increased risk - and I know that is the case for some manufacturers at the time of the change - then I resent my choice being removed. I know I could choose to ignore the warnings but that is not a solution.

The harder it becomes for other people to feed your child the more impact it has on their social life. I want my child to live as near normally as possible.

Still something we agree to disagree on, I think. Pity no-one else has expressed a view. Perhaps no other members of the campaign around.

'Risk' or perception of risk is individual.
Allergies are individual this makes everyones perception of allergies and life different.

Food manufacters have a very difficult job when even attempting to label one of their products nut free.
One of the main problems being that all equipment and lines are second hand. It's very expensive to buy new, and second hand machines can not be gareenteed to be nut free.
Tracabilty of ingreidents is another problem, when products come from so far away, and nuts and seeds in particular are mixed and packaged on the same lines before transport, before manufactering.

Sometimes it's one item of machinery that may cause cross contamination. For e.g one wraping machine for two lines of food. One line may be nut free, but the shared machine is the problem.

Then there is the type of product being made, think bread and think of flour and how easily airbourne that product can be, and what that can transport to other foods.

Food productions or companies are there to make money, producing nut free foods does not = that.

Small companys do well as they are aiming at a small gap in the market. But so called allergy free foods are not really aimed at the IGE allergic population.
The only reason kinnerton provide chocolate in a nut free zone is because there products apeal to a vast majority of people, not just the nut allergic.
Human error is a problem and does count as a safety risk in food production, simply moving a member of staff from one line to another can cause cross comtamintation.

There are so many wide and varied reasons why a allergy warning is on a food product, thats why supermarkets have developed their own labeling system. Often it doenst help us, the allergic consumers, but for the most part I would rather have a warning there, than not.

I would love to have more choice in the products i want to put in my shopping basket. But that day is not really going to happen.
I am all for improvement of labeling and its understanding, my recent bug bear is the non ingreident labeling of so called in store bakery products. Often these are made outside the shop,but they slip through without ingreident listing/allergy warning by law.

As for the social impact of food on a child with multiple food and environmental allergies, well, yes it does, there is no escaping that fact.

Our son does go to friends houses for tea, we do eat out, and he is going on a two day trip away with the school.
However thats only because of the work I do in the background.
Thats the only reason my son has a normal life, and thats how its going to be for some years to come.
I do miss the times when we could decide to go out for a meal with out forward planning. But that will never happen now.
There HAVE been occasions when we have kept our son at home or refused an invite, simply because of his allergies.
The more allergies you have to deal with the bigger the impact on life.
At the times when our son can not eat with the same food as his friends or has to miss an activity because of the risk level, I remember that things could be far worse. Allergies are not a death sentance, management and avoidance is the only way forward.
I dream of the day when we only have to deal with nut allergy, its seems simple when compared to the other allergies in his life.

I do hope others join in this thread as well!!

I joined the anaphylaxis campaign last year after my ds (8yrs) was diagnosed with severe peanut allergy. I would love more informative food labels and especially like it when they name the type of nut that 'might' be contained in the product as my ds is not allergic to tree nuts.

This gives us slightly more choice eg I can buy some chocolate for baking - cos some brands are peanut free (Green and Blacks).

I think the blanket warning 'May Contain Nuts' is a cop out and is often used by food manufacturers to avoid responsibilty. Yes it's hard for them - but it is bl**dy hard for allergy sufferers too.

As a parent I am often left trying to make a judgement about potential risks with very little information. If we are going to take a risk, I would like to have as much information as possible before taking that risk.

I have swarm of allergies one of which nearly killed me, so we had the kids tested. Had a nice chat with the medics, and they advise keeping all nuts out of their even though we now know they aren't allergic.

I wonder if the real solution is to ban nuts ?
That sounds extreme, but quite a few people die from them every year, not just from reactions, but also choking.
If Walkers were to bring out a type of crisp that did this, would be gone from the shelves te same day.

Won't happen of course.

it's a bloody minefield isnt it? Ds is allergic to most nuts and I am gobsmacked at the amount of "may contain nuts" warnings around. Last week Sainsburys were promoting a new flavoured water drink (a new fruit shoot I think). the promo woman he was giving away free samples but had a huge sign on her desk saying "not suitable for nut allergy sufferers". I asked why and got some vague (defensive and rude too) response about " we cannot guarantee .... blah blah ....". I told her how difficult it is to shop for my som without these seemingly misplaced notices . She wasnt interested at all. Same goes for Waitrose bakery where I had a similar discussion. I think banning all nuts is an excellent idea!

not a member but definitely a peanut allergy sufferer. I must have been one of the 1st. I've been reading labels all my life & have learned never to eat anything unless I am certain no peanuts have been anywhere near it. I went to a gallery opening years ago & had severe anaphylaxis. Couldn't understand why because I hadn't eaten anything there. Then realised that a lot of people had been eating peanuts & by breathing the same air I had become extremely ill. So, risk is everywhere. As someone said, carry your epipen & hope for the best.

A nut free world would be great but it's not going to happen and if extended to those with other allergies would leave all of us with very little to eat. So I want something that is going to help me distinguish between the possibility that at some stage in the journey to table my food might accidentally have come into contact with a nut to the food that includes nuts or was on the same production line as nuts and hence has a much higher risk. There is no way of excluding risk without becoming self sufficient and staying home but I should be able to limit the risk. Labelling neds to help me do that and labelling water doesn't help!

tealady nuts are often stored with peanuts, we were advised to avoid all nuts unless we'd shelled them.

Please don't knock kinnerton, williamsmummy. Yes they spotted a gap in the market and make a profit from it but lots of other manufacturers can't be bothered.

tatt , I agree with everything you said, and am not knocking kinnerton at all.
I have just repeated what the owner said to me, when I visited and the factory a couple of years ago.
i was lucky to have a complete tour given by the owner, he explained the many difficult issues that manufacters have with the safety of their products. ( have also been to the weetabix factory as well)
I have witnessed the measures they take to make a chocolate bar milk free, and believe me there is no great profit in this. A large second hand line was hand cleaned by staff with brushes the size of toothbrushes, and different staff on short timetables for weeks to ensure that it was clean.

If it wasnt for kinnerton my son would have never been able to have any easter eggs at all.

After this tour I thought it brought to my mind the real problems we have with labeling lies with the stronger and more richer areas of food production and selling.
The supermarkets, who are the ones with the money and the power to really change our lives. The MDs of the supermarkets are the ones we should be comlaining to.
I wrote to all of them , and the only decent response was from sainsburys.
I arranged to take my local manager around the shop, I gave him my shopping list and a list of all my sons allergies. It did impress on him the difficulties we have. I had the satisfaction of letting the manager search (in vain) for a safe ice cream for my son.
He in turn had to report back to Mr king.
i would have liked to have a better response from the others, who didnt in some cases read my letter properly.
one didnt seem to understand the difference between intolerance and IGE allergy. Others like waitrose never replied.
However not undaunted by this will again write sometime soon.
I have this dream that i get hold of a MD , push a trolley in his hand and take him around his shop.
If we all sent some stinky letters asking for help, and send copys to the anaphylaxis campaign, this would all help build a better case for change.
well, thats my opinon anyway.

oh for a nut free world Isn't going to happen of course but why do they still sell peanuts on planes, surely people can do without them for their journey. Last four flights I've had have been with first choice. I always phone them and request a nut free flight for my ds. On one of the flights we caught sight of the snacks trolley and sure enough peanuts on there! They had to make an announcement and ask any people who had bought them to stop eating them and give back to the airline staff.

When they used to give out free snacks they seemed to stop giving peanuts and used savoury biscuits instead. Now they sell snacks peanuts seem to be back on the menu!

Haven't flown with anyone else since discovering my ds allergies so don't know if you can request nut free flights with them.

I think nuts should definitely be banned on all flights - why would airlines want to take the risk?

Mell 2 - yep you can request nut free flights, whether you get them is another matter but you can ask. My H took kids to USA (inc then 11 yr old D severely nut allergic) on his own - brave man. They went with Virgin who were extremely helpful. However there were no peanuts on the plane, daughter only has to smell nuts to provoke reaction, but they were still selling/providing small toblerones with almonds in, which made it difficult but H had word with air hostess and they were moved to another part of the plane away from anyone with the sweets so they got to USA fine, had great holiday - American's are hot on nut allergy, and got back again fine but shattered lol.

It is possible to do normal things with the kids, you have to do some groundwork first but it is possible.

On another point, with daughter in Morrisons the other day and she wanted some cakes - she's fed up of constantly having their ginger buns, wanted change. I told her to go and choose something - I knew that she wouldn't find anything thought - she went up and down the cake aisle and got really mad, everything had nuts in or may contain - absoultely nothing that she could eat - so I came the "Now you know how I feel getting your food every week!" thing with her, and had a big smile on my face - so she got 2 packs of Greens' cake mixes and came home and made her own. Greens' mixes are great by the way, usually 100% safe (but always check yourself).

I think Tesco's nut allergy information is excellent, far better than the "may contain traces of nuts" which you found in tiny writing in the ingredients
I once saw this message on a bar of Milka chocolate. It actually contained ground hazlenuts . I had a long argument with trading standards on how misleading and dangerous this was but they couldn't understanding.

It's funny you mentioned morrisons ke. My dh bought their own make shortcake biscuits (every other make is ok) and it actually contained peanuts. Can't understand why peanuts is an ingredient in shortcake biscuits.

This is the worry isn't it. If my ds saw these biscuits at a party he would think, oh i've had these before.

Thanks for the tip on Green's mixes.

We travelled to Canada with BA ,ds allergic to tree nuts.I had done all the pre warning etc.Had requested childs meal for ds.They didn't have a child's meal so offered an alternative.I said ds wasn't that hungry so she offered to bring a snack.Ten minutes later a bowl of nuts is plonked down in front of me !!!!!!!!!
Luckily it had a lid on it and it was taken away quite quickly ,no harm came to ds.It just goes to show that communication is sometimes not enough.