AITA - I don't believe someone with alcohol issues can "just have a few"?

[TonofBees]

DH and I have been together over 20 years and he wouldn't say he's an alcoholic, but his drinking has caused us terrible problems in the past. He's always had a point that he hits when drinking - you can see the change in his eyes, after which point he just becomes awful. He has a tendency to go really odd and morose, and often talks to himself in a really alarming way.

At its worst, he went out one night when the children were very young. I spoke to him on the phone at about 11pm and he said he was on the way back, and he just didn't come home. He was on his own at that point, and I literally spent the entire night sat up wondering whether I should call the police/hospitals and picturing him dead in a ditch. He finally rolled in at 6am (we were due to go away as a family that morning) and he was totally paralytic, defensive and nasty and has never been able to tell me where he was - this incident nearly ended our marriage entirely.

When away from home (if drinking) he has a tendency to sleepwalk and has several times come around standing in lobbies and corridors of hotels with no idea how he got there. He spent many years drinking every single day - not necessarily getting drunk, but adding up to way too many units over an average week. His drinking has caused so many issues and I got to the point where I dreaded going to any sort of event or get-together where he'd be drinking as it just always led to some sort of drama. I got so fed up of being on edge in advance, and having to be on alert/the responsible adult when out.

Just over a year ago I gave him an ultimatum - I said that if he wanted to carry on drinking he could but I wasn't going to stick around for it. He has frequently said he'd get help in the past, but he'd go to a support group once and that would be it - I think the root of the matter is that he just thinks his drinking is normal and that he doesn't have a problem. He did read a book which seems to have made an impact and has massively cut down - he drinks several non-alcoholic beers a day now but this is progress from real beer + whisky every day (on his own, sometimes in secret).

(Sorry - this is quite long now! ) So - here’s my question: do you think it is possible to ‘conquer’ your issues with alcohol, whilst still having occasions where you drink it? He thinks that because he has it under control he can have a few drinks on certain occasions and that’s fine. I don’t agree, I think that he’s always going to have a problem and it’s naïve not to set (at the very least!) very rigid rules, such as two drinks maximum, but to be totally honest I don’t think he can control it and would be better off abstaining completely. If just one of the events had happened to me (such as I went missing, had no idea where I was, ruined a family holiday and almost my marriage) I would never have touched a drop again, and it makes me question what it would take for him to stop drinking?

This has come up again as he had a few drinks over Christmas and New Year, and is now planning a weekend with a friend that has always in the past turned into a massive bender. (He’s previously told this friend that he has issues, allegedly, but the friend then bought him a bottle of whisky for Christmas, so either he lied about being honest with his friend, or the friend is a massive arsehole.)

I’m now dreading him going on this night out/weekend away because I just don’t trust him and I’m already dreading the fallout – AIBU? He has made progress, and I’ve never known him stick to low/no alcohol like he has in the past year, but I’m still deeply uncomfortable, and think the fact that he can’t commit to not drinking at all means that he still has issues?

You are correct. However, you can't change what he does. You need help as it is a family illness. You can only change what you do.

This is a link for the support network to people who have someone in their lives where drinking is a problem. Please click and read

al-anonuk.org.uk/

I think it’s a really tough one to be honest. I’ve never had any issues with alcohol myself personally, I’m not a big drinker at all and don’t drink regularly, could count on one hand the amount of times in the last year that I’ve had a drink, but if someone told me tomorrow I could never have a drink again I know I wouldn’t be happy about that- and that’s coming from someone who doesn’t have any issues with alcohol. It’s not that I crave a drink or need a drink, but there is something about having the choice taken from me to EVER think “ah it’s a lovely sunny day I’ll have a pint down the beach” or “tough day at work I’ll have a glass of wine tonight”. If that’s how I feel, that I can see why someone who does actively have that craving to drink would struggle to make that commitment to never drinking again.

I also think someone with alcohol issues is always going to struggle with “just a couple” because, again, how many people who DON’T have those issues have gone to the pub for 1 and ended up having more than 1? Loads. It is definitely a clearer line to completely abstain, it’s easier to stick to “none” that to say “a couple” because inevitably after that couple you feel a little bit tipsy and fancy another, but as I say I can see that it would be hard to say none ever again and stick to it.

My BIL is an addict, worse than your husband, but I can really relate to the wondering what it would take for the drinking to stop for good. We have had A&E trips, picked up by police, kicked out of every home he’s in, hospital admissions, stomach pumped etc, he agrees in the thick of a hangover that he needs to stop but within a day of the last drink he’s reaching for the next.

Thank you both - reading and digesting. My biggest fear is that either of my children go down that route themselves. So far so good- but eldest DS is now 18 and starting to venture out and that also makes me nervous. I cut out alcohol a couple of years ago (not that I drank much anyway) just because I thought that I could counter DHs drinking by modelling that not everyone drinks every day, and what that showed me was the messed up attitudes we have to alcohol in this country (and anyone who chooses not to drink!). The comments I got (mainly about being “boring”, and “don’t be that person” etc) were interesting, so I get that it’s hard to not drink socially etc.

I said that if he wanted to carry on drinking he could but I wasn't going to stick around for it

But he has carried on drinking. And you have stuck around for it.

You are quite right that he can't possibly just have a few every now and then but he isn't going to believe you. You said it yourself He has frequently said he'd get help in the past, but he'd go to a support group once and that would be it - I think the root of the matter is that he just thinks his drinking is normal and that he doesn't have a problem.

Unless he is willing to accept that he has a problem and he needs to make long term changes you are always going to end back at the start.

I appreciate you're in a difficult place at the moment where you can't say "I said you had to stop drinking, you have cut down a lot and stuck to that for a long time but I've now decided that isn't enough". However, I suspect that unfortunately this weekend away is going to give you your answer. He will claim it was a one off, or you're being uptight about him blowing off steam 'once in a while' but that will be the slippery slope.

I agree with @keffie12 , you should engage with Al Anon and move the focus back to you, and what you want.

I'm a recovering alcoholic, nearly 3 years sober. I don't drink, EVER, and there are people who still don't get that. 'But you're ok, you don't have a problem any more, a couple won't hurt'.

And maybe they wouldn't, the first time. But I also know the alcoholic brain would go 'you had that couple yesterday and you were all right. No harm in having a couple today', and before you know it, right back to the horror.

If you have a problem with alcohol (or any other substance) and you really want to beat it, you can't have any, ever.

I think he’s right to a degree. Many problem drinkers CAN just have one or two drinks and then switch to fizzy water…this time. But those neural pathways which have long laid unused and quiet are fired up again. The brain has remembered this hit and how these pathways work.

I’m a recovering alcoholic. I could absolutely go out to dinner tomorrow and have a glass of wine with my meal followed by a coffee. And nothing else. Though the thought makes me want to vomit! But next weekend my brain would say, you did such a good job having just one drink, you should reward yourself again. This time it would be a glass of wine and a nightcap of something stronger. It would take me exactly 2 weeks to be right back to drinking 2-3 bottles of wine every night. I know because I’ve tested this theory many times before I got sober! As have most people who longed to be able to moderate.

Problem drinking is like being on a lift. You can get off on any floor you choose before you hit the bottom, but it only goes one direction. If you get back on, it keeps on going down, not back up. He’s past the point of being a ‘normal’ drinker and part of coming to terms with that is accepting that you can’t drink, at all, even a little bit to maintain healthy long term sobriety.

@TonofBees Alcoholism is an illness, a medical illness. It's not a choice of life. However, that does not mean you need to put up with it.

I, too, am a long-term member of A.A. I am 22 years sober in March this year. Yes, I still go. Not for drinking now. It's about emotional sobriety.

I also still go as the groups are run by the members of A A like all 12 step fellowships.

I have dual membership for Al-Anon and ACAADC (Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional childhoods)

I think it's possible to conquer a drink problem and still have the occasional drink.

My partner used to drink maybe a bottle of spirit every Fri/sat and then at least 6 or so beers on the other days.

I think the thing that really made the lasting difference was him accepting that saying never again was setting him up for failure. He knew he would falter and have a drink, so knew he would ultimately fail. Instead he will go weeks on end not having a drink and looks forward to an occasion coming up where he can have a few drinks (not to the extreme) e.g. a drink at Xmas, when we go out for dinner on valentine's, and then I think the next time is June. We seem to have an unspoken rule that no alcohol is allowed in the house anymore, and he will drive if he goes out, so he has a reason not to drink.

It's been like this for maybe 3 years now, and this past Christmas he only had a single glass of wine!

They cannot just have a few. Just as myself, an ex gambling addict could never just have a little flutter.

@GolGoldpanther Your partner isn't alcoholic then. Many csn stop and/or moderate if they decide too. An alcoholic can't

Thanks everyone so much.

The difficulty is, DH doesn’t think he’s an alcoholic, he sounds very much like yours @Goldpanther in that in the past he’ll have periods where he goes without a drink for sometimes months. He also thinks that because he’s not waking up in the morning and drinking, or hiding bottles places that what he does is fine. He definitely has more control over it than my stepfather did, who died very young due to alcoholism. But at the point where I issued my ultimatum he was having to have two very large mixed drinks in the evening (putting him at nearly 50 units per week, before adding in any additional pints that he seemed to need if he was cooking/eating a meal). This was every day, like a ritual he had to end a day and he really didn’t want to break it. I hadn’t realised he was doing this, to this extent until something happened that brought it to light.

I’m not sure whether that makes him alcohol-dependent, a problem drinker or an alcoholic but whatever it is I just feel like if it causes the problems it does, he should just draw a line, and the fact that he doesn’t want to because he “likes the taste” is just a huge red flag to me.

@TonofBees Alcohol dependent is Alcoholism- alcohol dependent is the terminology used today as it sounds better than alcoholic. It's the same as the problem drinker.

As for not drinking, for months, etc. I get it.

I was fine with the title stress binge drinker. What I didn't realise is that it's not about how much you drink or how often it's about what happens when you drink.

I had stepped over a line where I could guarantee I could take one drink safely. It would set off a phenomenon of craving that I needed more and more.

I didn't drink in the morning. I drank on an evening. I would ho all week, weeks even months bit when I drank I didn't know what would happen so..

A problem drinker is defined also by the fact it's a problem to others.

You won't get him to see he is alcoholic. He has to see it himself. The fact is that the more you go on, "Is him about his drinking," and the more he will dig his heels in and refuse to listen.

Read the link I sent you on Al anon under your initial post. You can't stop him. You want to save him. You are powerless over what he does. It is powerless but not helpless.

Please look into al-anon for you.

Alcoholics don't just live on the streets or drink in the morning. They have homes, lives, jobs, cars, high flying careers, etc.

I had to learn that I had my park bench behind lace curtains on a sofa

Alcoholic isn't categorised by how much you drink, what you drink or when you drink (although that can certainly give you a strong clue!)

The main issue is that it is causing problems and they can't / won't stop.

You have given him an ultimatum and he won't / can't stop.

That tips it from normal drinker to big issue - any normal drinker when faced with losing their marriage would simply stop.

No I don't. Sober 5 years.

I just don't believe that it's possible to grow that off button. If you've always had a healthy relationship with alcohol fine. But if you haven't, you'll always end up back where you started.

It's VERY rare to be able to gain any control.