Advice on alcoholic SIL / family drama

[ChaoticCrumble]

My SIL is in her 40s with one five-year-old child. She denies having a problem but did get a DUI approx 8 years ago when in a previous relationship ('I only drove down one road').

We do not live close by and that side of the family acts like everything is fine until there is some sort of crisis. MIL and FIL have a close relationship with SIL and they frequently tell us life is going well.

But recently it seems likely that a) SIL is an alcoholic and b) both her and MIL are in complete denial. In September she had a fight with her now-ex, rang my DH completely drunk, with tears and screaming. Police were called. Neighbours told PILs she is always drunk. Has often sounded slurry on the phone only for MIL to say 'oh she's completely lucid, don't be silly'.

They all came to visit us the other day - they'd picked SIL up at 10 in the morning and got to ours for about midday. She was pissed. Loud, obnoxious, stank, emotional. They'd had a row in the car because FIL tried to mention it and MIL told him to back off. He's not allowed to talk about it.

FIL secretly told us that she had been caught a few days earlier drink-driving with her child in the car, but she's convinced she will get away with it because she failed to provide a sample at the police station (in fact failure to provide carries an automatic ban and is just as bad as giving a sample over the limit, plus as she has offended in the last ten years she should get a 3 yr ban at minimum).

I don't actually know what advice I want, my head is spinning. I suppose some insight would be useful. I asked how often is she drinking, is it once a week and she binges, or is it constant? Is it that once she starts she can't stop, or that she's always drunk? No one knows. FIL has seen crates of lager at her house, so thinks that is her problem, but can you really drink lager quickly enough to be pissed at 10am or is it more likely to be a maintenance drink during the day?

And of course I'm worried about SIL's son, my nephew. They are already on social service's radar. I get the impression SS know she drinks but are not worried until she is negligent (don't think they know about the drink driving yet). What I'd really like is for SIL to admit she has a problem so she can turn things around, but if her mother thinks she's fine I'm not sure how she's ever going to get there.

She is currently staying with PILs for the Christmas period so hopefully won't be driving or doing much of anything for the next week. I'm going to give FIL info on Al-anon but not sure what else we can be doing, if anything.

Sorry for super long post. There is a lot more back story so trying not to drip feed while also staying relatively concise!

Having alcoholics in the family, I know that there really is very little you can do. Even if everyone, including MIL, told her she had an alcohol problem it doesn’t mean she will be able to admit it. For the safety of DN it sounds like a driving ban would be best all round. Whether it will give SIL the wake up call she needs to seek help is another matter.
I have family members that drink alcohol when they wake up so it is perfectly possible for her to still be drunk from hammering it the night before then just top up with lager in the morning.
Its sad for her DS to be living in that situation and it will be affecting him. Your MIL being in denial is not helping her DD or your DN but I imagine she may be scared your DN will be removed from her DD care if she makes it real and acknowledges what is actually happening.

If she gets a driving ban please please please take all her car keys. From experience I know that reckless personalities will still drive anyway as they don't have the capacity to think of consequences

Sorry for slow response. Have heard that she's gone back home to 'feed the cat' and 'run some errands' twice over Christmas and has been drunk when picked up after both times.

Two other developments. 1) her car has mysteriously stopped working and her boss needs her to drive for work so has given her an interest-free loan for a new one, which both MIL and FIL approved of. She's getting a new debt for a car that she shouldn't be able to drive in a few weeks.

2. PILs have offered to get her a lawyer who can 'get her off' the failure to provide charge. I'm dismayed. She did drink and drive and she DID fail to provide. I think there's a small chance she could get off due to the DUI being on the anniversary of a personal tragedy (mental health can on rare occasions be a reason for failure to provide), but we actually need her to be punished and hit rock bottom. How will she learn if everything carries on as normal?

So as of right now, she's still getting drunk whenever she's left alone, has got into debt for a new car, and is hoping to get off a crime on a technicality which will no doubt lead to more drink driving.

Think I will use this thread as a safe space to vent. There is such a weird family dynamic, I can't really do anything except refuse to let these people look after my kids.

Hi @ChaoticCrumble I know this is old. But I am in an almost identical situation with my SIL. She doesn’t have a child though (thank goodness). I wondered how your situation turned out? Maybe I just need a vent too. It’s draining on the whole family.

It's improved but ongoing, with worsenings at times! After that Christmas, the nephew spent a year living with the in-laws - he is just now going back to mum for five nights per week.

She got caught drink-driving again and lost her licence. She has lost multiple jobs in the last 18 months. She began a relationship with her alcohol counsellor, who no longer sees her professionally but is still working in the service (and seeing her) because they are short-staffed.

Christmas 23 she pushed over both in-laws in a drunken argument, bruising both. Due to the holidays nothing was done by social services.

However in positive news she hasn't had a public 'incident' (eg being drunk at school pickup, pushing people etc) for a few months and the alcohol counsellor she is seeing has persuaded her to join AA. She's now going to meetings twice per week but won't talk about it to the family. So for all we know this could be it - she could be turning things around. But it's definitely damaged relationships at the same time.

I can definitely see why it's seen as a family disease.

Thank you for your reply! My SIL has just been caught drink driving for the second time. My DP (her brother) was in tears last night worrying about her and his parents and I’ve never seen him like that. I know it’s a disease but I’m so angry with her. She is nearly 40 years old and couldn’t possible have had any more support from everyone. Every event we have is overshadowed by her and her issues. It’s my DDs birthday this weekend and all she was bothered about was bringing along her new ‘bf’ who we have never heard of or met! Googled him to find he’s just come out of prison (We obviously said no).

It’s just a mess. It sounds like your SIL is making some progress. I’m not sure if mine has accessed AA but she definitely needs it. I feel like his whole family is in denial and they just keep picking her up/fixing her problems no matter what she does. Last time she was banned driving, her parents took it in turns to wake up at 5am and take her to work for a whole year. Then she had the nerve to say to me she thinks they enjoyed it! I couldn’t believe it after all she had put everyone through. And now she’s done it again.

It is a very difficult situation - and tbh they have to want to change. My SIL told us in January that she only drinks socially (a clear lie) and that it's normal to have a drink, that everyone does it (not to that extent...). What she really wants is for everyone to leave her alone - not to stop drinking. She's only admitted once or twice, usually after an 'incident' that she even has a problem.

Enabling parents don't help - it's hard for you and me too when we are just outside the immediate family unit so anything we said could be taken the wrong way.

My inlaws looked after her son for a whole year (still have him every time she goes out, and two nights per week) and she never said thanks. Every time she did get a job, my FIL would drive her to it, even though she doesn't talk to him most of the time (he falls out with her regularly but MIL believes every new day is a chance for change and forgives everything). They buy her food when she spends her money on drink.

I'm crossing my fingers that things have changed now but until I see her taking her son to school for six months without any incidents, I won't truly believe it.

We're not even sure when she started drinking - my husband wonders if it stems back to her teens. If so, how easy can it be to stop a 20+ year habit?

Big hugs!

Just thought I would respond to you both and say what lovely people you are for being concerned about your respective SILs. You are right to be concerned but the main problem is that if the SIL's don't want to help themselves, there is very little you can do. You will both already know this, I'm sure, but you must keep an eye on your SILs and be there for non-judgmental support if/when it is required. Don't ignore problems like the parents are doing - the parents probably don't want to admit what's going on beneath their noses or are 'ashamed' of it and don't want anyone else's sympathy. I wish you both every success in trying to support and help your SILs now and in the future.

My own story is that I lost my SIL (my DH's younger sister) in May this year. Very similar stories to your own. We knew she drank, the parents were in denial, no kids fortunately, but a partner who also drank but not to the same extent. We supported and helped as much as we were 'allowed' to, but SIL was not accepting of advice, help, support in any shape or form. Everything blamed on the menopause (early 50s). At the very last, an ambulance took her to hospital but she had too much liver damage and they couldn't help her. It has devastated the family - parents still won't tell anyone WHY she died, even though the hospital say alcohol deaths are becoming more common now, especially since Covid, stressful jobs and working from home.

Over the last year, SIL fell down the stairs a couple of times, had some swelling in her leg meaning she couldn't walk very well, her whites of her eyes were creamy/yellowing (jaundice), she wasn't eating much food, had vomited blood, made every excuse not to attend family gatherings, had a car but didn't drive it (London based so buses/tubes were the perfect excuse not to drive), used excuses like the shower flooding to get out of going out etc etc. If you see any similar signs, be warned that the drinking is getting out of control and seriously damaging her health.

So sorry you are going through this - wouldn't wish it on anyone else.

Do everything you can for your nephew, there's not much you can do for your SIL, she has to get there herself. I'm saying that as someone who comes from a family rife with addiction issues (and I woke up to a stream of abusive text messages from my mother this morning because I hung up on her last night as she was drunkenly tearing into my brothers and sisters and I don't listen to that crap). Alcoholics are incredibly selfish and try to brush everything under the carpet. I say that as someone who used to have an alcohol problem myself (five years sober now). Having an alcoholic mother really sets you up for problems, though, all five of us kids have a drink problem. The girls are all sober, the boys still drinking, and I worry my younger brother wont see 40. Your nephew is going to need support.

@Frecklespy thank you for that. I’m so sorry for your loss.
I’m struggling being non-judgmental at the moment, but I’m sure this will lessen with time. She is very vulnerable (even more so now) and I can sense this guy is just going to take advantage of her

I know this thread hasn't been commented on in a few weeks but OP, I just wanted to say please do whatever you can to support your nephew. As he is only five, maybe right now that just means keeping in close contact. Ensuring that he has that strong connection with you. So that when he is older, he will know he has people to confide in, spend time with.

I last posted in Feb. Everything has changed and nothing has changed. SIL avoided enough big incidents that she and son are now off any social services plan and she has him 5/6 days a week, with the other night so she can go out on a Saturday.

She got a slightly better alcohol advisor and joined AA. But then started dating him! They told SS about this and were surprised when he was then suspended while they looked into it.

A few months on, she says she is sober but is still caught obviously drunk by my PIL every so often. And the alcohol advisor (now unemployed) boyfriend is now moving into her (mortgage free, paid for by PIL) house.

Which makes me think - what is the real attraction in a 40-something alcoholic? Her sparkling wit or the fact she has a paid-for house and a 6-year old?

DH has spoken to PIL about our concerns but I think they are just pleased someone is there to look after her.

She can be charming and love-bomb people, and surprisingly looks good for her age, so maybe he has genuinely fallen for her...

But if your job is dealing with alcoholics and you regularly see the reality of what that means, why would you date one?

God almighty! He is a crap alcohol counselor and I really hope he never works again. Apart from not drinking, rule number one is you don't form romantic attachments with your clients!!

Do you KNOW all of this information or are you being given this information by your PIL just to ask OP?

Report all of this to ss. The risk to her child is to important.
You don't need to give your name and details . But you can and request they don't tell them .
We had to for my sil. She and her husband have drink/drug problems.
They would also drive drunk.
They always had a glass of vodka or mug and pretend was water .
Like anyone would fall for that!
They lost custody in the end as they wouldn't give up drink/drugs .
The kids were very neglected

PIL and SIL live in the same town (they sold the family home to buy a smaller one for themselves and a house for her) and live very co-dependent lives. Any info in the thread is largely from them, but some is from SIL too when she talks to my husband (albeit rarely). They do tend to minimise ("we were told not to tell you the latest") but I think what does come out is otherwise accurate.

Social services know about the boyfriend. He reported himself and was then suspended for an investigation and he has since resigned so they can be together. I was incorrect about one thing above - they have one more meeting to go and then they will be off the plan.

I suspect from the overworked SS perspective her life is now more stable, son is going to school, there have been no arrests (as she can no longer drive), no more obvious drunkenness at school gates, and lots of parents drink. This is in a very deprived part of the UK.

PIL regularly see the son (he sleeps over at theirs at least once a week) and check in daily so they will notice anything serious wrong.

I'm just posting to update really. I'm very much an outsider looking in and what I've learned is that if no one is willing to change anything, nothing is going to change. My PIL get frustrated and deeply worry about her but are very much enablers.

Perhaps with AA and a boyfriend she will find a route to stableness.

My view is that I would need to see this stableness last over a period of months before I truly believe it, but you never know.

Well indeed - and why would you want to when you have surely seen some of them at their worst? SIL can be lovely but she is also very abusive verbally when she's had a drink.

What worries me is that his motive is not her 'loveliness' but her house and child.

Absolutely! And a lot of counselors are prior alcoholics or other addictions so it makes it worse.

I'm an alcoholic so I know how awful people in active addiction can be & obviously know the addicts side too and do sympathise with her but wow, she's definitely still in active addiction. You've got to be worried. Thank goodness the grandparents see the kid regularly so can check up. She's stable now (drinking but seemingly not to excess) but I do not think that will last. Sadly she'll probably have a huge binge when she lets her guard down. Either that or she'll quit entirely, I hope that is the case.

How did you know? He is a prior addict (not sure which type). My theory is that she is largely a functional alcoholic but every so often tips into dysfunction.

even when she is doing well I think - well that’s only going to last until the next ‘bad’ day of some sort. The hard days are what really test us, after all.

how will the boyfriend do on a day when she’s drunk and the son is being naughty? Might he relapse too?

god, I hope not.