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Alcohol support

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Original poster

Can someone explain Denial to me

28 replies

XiCi · 05/11/2021 11:36

I have a close relative in hospital for the 3rd time in as many months following an alcoholic fit. In the past 6months he's lost his wife, his house, his job and his health is deteriorating. During his last hospital stay we cleared tens and tens of bottles of vodka from his house. Despite all this he is still telling everyone he has no problem with drink. This last time he was hooked up to a drip while they detoxed him still saying that he has no idea why they keep mentioning alcohol to him. I just don't get it. How does denial work. Does he actually believe it himself or just can't face up to the problem. What does it take to get past it?

OP posts:

Internetio · 05/11/2021 11:42

In my ex’s case the denial was highly driven by his narcissism- he thought he was better than an alcoholic (he thought he was better than anyone tbh) he didn’t believe that he wasn’t in charge of things. He also had a hospital stay and denied in any way it was alcohol related. Until they accept it then there’s no way there’s going to be change. Sorry- it sucks to watch but you really do have to prioritise yourself because they will always prioritise alcohol.

DriftingPlateTectonic · 05/11/2021 17:39

Yes have also seen this in action. Denial that the coma they ended up in was caused by drink. I imagine it's because the shame of admitting it to others would equal the shame they try and conceal by drinking in the first place.

TheProvincialLady · 05/11/2021 17:48

Having been admitted to hospital due to dehydration and starvation but utterly clueless as to why everyone kept thinking I needed to eat, I can sadly relate. Denial is not always conscious, it can be a whole different world one inhabits.

Don’t tie yourself up in knots about it. Nothing you do or don’t do will make any difference to his denial.

invisibleoldwoman · 13/11/2021 22:45

There is a saying that only a drunk can lie in a gutter and look down on other people.

Audreyhelp · 14/11/2021 22:44

I know someone that has lost her family through alcohol. She can’t keep a job hasn’t worked for years she still denies she has a problem ,.
Is there anything I can say to help her ?
She went to AA but said it was a certain type that went there.

invisibleoldwoman · 15/11/2021 08:27

She went to AA but said it was a certain type that went there.

Classic.

I don't think there is anything you can say to help her. She has to reach a point where she admits she has a problem and will do anything to solve it.

Possibly if you were very blunt with her but most people equate helping with being nice and that doesn't work with alcoholics.

Internetio · 15/11/2021 09:46

@Audreyhelp I think the best thing you can do is step back, the ‘hitting rock bottom’ thing is true, an alcoholic often hits rock bottom when they realise they have a problem that they can’t deal with and have no-one left around them to either blame it on or deny it to.

Audreyhelp · 15/11/2021 12:43

Thanks I think she has hit rock bottom I suppose there’s nothing more I can do just very sad as she is not a horrible person it’s just drink makes her horrible.
She literally has no one .

theemmadilemma · 15/11/2021 12:47

I don't honestly know.

I'm a sober alcoholic. I knew for years my drinking was a problem. I pretty much stopped denying it was as such, just gave hollow promises of trying to cut down.

I do know that the idea of not being able to drink horrified me. That I couldn't foresee a life without alcohol in it to help me deal with life, and for that reason I did everything I could to avoid having to deal with the issue. I believed you'd be taking a bottle out of cold dead hands.

But then I also sought help myself at a point where I was so ill I just wanted a normal life back. No one persons journey is the same as anothers.

Audreyhelp · 15/11/2021 12:49

I have been blunt with her . But she just says you are overweight give up eating .
She said she’s off vodka so not a problem .
She has all sorts of illnesses so needs to have an odd drink to cope .
Her doctor gives her a regular liver test and she says that’s fine so hasn’t a problem.

theemmadilemma · 15/11/2021 12:50

@invisibleoldwoman

She went to AA but said it was a certain type that went there.

Classic.

I don't think there is anything you can say to help her. She has to reach a point where she admits she has a problem and will do anything to solve it.

Possibly if you were very blunt with her but most people equate helping with being nice and that doesn't work with alcoholics.

Actually she's not wrong. It is a certain type of support, and it's not a fit for a lot of people due to the spiritual side of things.

Internetio · 15/11/2021 13:18

That doesn’t sound like rock bottom if she’s still denying there’s an issue.

Sorry but it’s an awful thing to deal with, prioritise yourself and your own well-being please. I didn’t for a long time and it very nearly broke me, it’s notable to say that ‘my’ alcoholic is still an active alcoholic, has lost everything of any meaning on his life including his wife, home, job and children. He still however has his parents; he lives in their spare room and they continue to enable him… he will never change while they do this, if they kick him out he will get worse and I believe drink himself to death as he is so stubborn and narcissistic.

Some people will never change, some people will, but nothing you do will have any impact on that outcome unless the alcoholic accepts that they have a problem in the first place.

BaublesAndGlitter · 15/11/2021 13:33

The denial is confusing isn't it? There is an alcoholic in my family and as much as I love her, the things she tells herself (and us) are terrifying. Some examples are that it's not the drink, it's carbonated water that makes her sick, she has to drink cider when she's very thirsty as it quenches her thirst unlike water and it must be because of the sugar in it (but offers of squash / juice / full fat coke etc are refused), she isn't an alcoholic because she doesn't drink spirits, just wine. And on and on and on. It's exhausting to listen to.
I think it ties in with the false promises and deals they make with themselves and others - in the case of my family member it's things like not drinking until 1pm on a weekend, promising not to drink on a Monday or Thursday (then breaking that but it's not a big deal) etc.

As others have said, all you can do it back away and look after yourself.

invisibleoldwoman · 15/11/2021 13:46

Actually she's not wrong. It is a certain type of support, and it's not a fit for a lot of people due to the spiritual side of things.

theemmadilemma

Yes, my comment was in the context of my earlier comment:

There is a saying that only a drunk can lie in a gutter and look down on other people

And also many hours spent listening to people make excuses, often not based on any facts or experience, about why the AA programme won't work for them, while not actually finding any alternative that does work for them.

But you are right, AA is not for everyone and does not claim to be. But to dismiss it on the basis that is for an undefined 'certain type of person' is classic alcoholic resistance to any solution. I have been to hundreds of AA meetings and met all sorts of people there. There is not a 'type'.

Internetio · 15/11/2021 13:48

Can I just make it clear that rock-bottom is not referring to the physical state of the alcoholic- you may believe she is at rock bottom because she is ill, has lost friends/family/job/home etc, that is not the case; the alcoholic reaches rock bottom, not their situation. This can be a difficult concept to grasp but it will help to assess the situation.

YellowandGreenToBeSeen · 15/11/2021 13:54

There’s a lot of shame around alcoholism. So so much. We judge boozers ‘can’t handle their drink’ ‘an embarrassment’ ‘a liability’. Look at some of the language on this thread: ‘rock bottom’, ‘only alcoholics can be in the gutter looking down on others’ etc etc. This is in no way an attack on the posters who wrote those comments - they are everywhere and often used in conjunction with the disease. I’ve judged.

And there’s also the ‘but WHY can’t I drink like other people? How are THEY able to drink sensibly whilst I am not? What is wrong with me??’ and perhaps every time they drink, they’re convinced this is the time they’ll stop at one or two.

Booze is everywhere. So entrenched in celebrating, socialising, relaxing and commiserating. Giving it up is terrifying.

You can’t change your relatives / friends behaviour but perhaps if someone had said to me that they didn’t care if I were an alcoholic, that it wouldn’t chance their opinion of me, I would have stopped sooner. It’s still not your responsibility to make them stop.

Audreyhelp · 15/11/2021 14:15

My friend refers to everything as depression which I suppose she is really she said she only drinks because of her depression . Obviously her children have gone no contact because of the way she is but then she gets upset more and drinks again it’s like one big circle .

She has said some horrible things to me but I still feel sorry for her I am literally all she has left and I live twenty miles away . If I talk about my husband etc and kids she says I am rubbing her face in it and I am lucky . I avoid ringing her .

pointythings · 16/11/2021 11:32

Audreyhelp you are allowed to detach from her. She isn't ready for actual help, she wants to be enabled and it sounds as if your instincts are telling you not to do that.

She will know full well that alcohol is a depressant and will therefore make her depression worse - but she will also be terrified of a life without alcohol.

Internetio · 16/11/2021 12:11

@Audreyhelp I agree with the above, she is actively avoiding and denying the problem. Protect yourself, she wants an enabler.

I know a PP has made the point from a different perspective and I have no doubt that being in that situation is horrific, however alcoholics will do anything to allow them to continue, lie, manipulate… very often the ‘woe is me’ routine is a tool they use to get someone to enable them. Whilst being the alcoholic must be hard, being ensnared as an enabler is something altogether soul destroying- you want to be nice, kind and helpful but that is taken advantage of; it genuinely rocks your confidence in humanity and can leave you a shell of your former self because it escalates- the analogy of the boiling frog etc. She is already abusive to you, don’t let her take that any further.

Audreyhelp · 16/11/2021 15:55

Thankyou both that’s really helpful . Been thinking of doing this hearing other opinions is really helpful .

pointythings · 16/11/2021 16:31

Many of us on here have been where you are with regard to loved ones or friends - it changes you. People who haven't lived with an addict see us as hard hearted and callous - we're not, we're protecting ourselves, detaching with love, as safe as we can be from the lies, the self-deception and the manipulation but nevertheless there to offer support (not enablement!) when the addict is genuinely ready to put the hard work in.

It's so so hard to walk that line, but the one thing you need with an addict in your life is strong boundaries. Yours seem to be pretty good, but if you feel yourself wavering, it's worth going to a support group and hearing what the people there have to say.

Sicario · 16/11/2021 16:39

Alcoholics will protect and defend their true love (alcohol) and forsake everything else to do so.

They lie, cheat, steal, and wreck lives (including their own).

Denial is the refusal to admit any of this. And there is nothing you can do to stop them or help them.

Internetio · 16/11/2021 17:54

@Audreyhelp do come back and chat if you ever need it- it can be a long and rocky road even if you detach.

I would also suggest Al-anon as it was my source of strength when I lost all hope. Please look after yourself and stay strong to your principles and boundaries.

Audreyhelp · 16/11/2021 18:16

Thanks so much . I was wavering as she has lost her husband , home children and all her family I was literally the only one left.
I have ignored her calls this afternoon but now is saying she can’t go on and I am her last person . It’s really hard wouldhate her to harm herself .
It’s so sad as she used to be a good mum and a nice person .

pointythings · 16/11/2021 20:16

Audreyhelp the only person who can help her is her. That's how it is with addicts. They pull you in and then drag you down. It isn't because they're bad people, it's because they will do anything to perpetuate their addiction.

Please get support for yourself - having an addict in your life is incredibly stressful. If you don't feel that Al-Anon is for you, you can try Smart Recovery which doesn't have the spiritual baggage people associate with 12 step programmes.

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