DH in denial.

[Thewayforward]

Morning.

Wonder if anybody could provide advice with this matter.

Essentially DH is an alcoholic but completely in denial. It all came to light a couple of years ago when things got bad however with counselling, support and meds we seemed to be moving in the right direction. Fast forward couple of years and he is back at it again. Although not drinking to the same levels as before it is blatantly obvious that he is. He however denies these claims and says that WE, his family are seeing things and says that he is doing really well. I really feel that he has some deep seated issues which are the route cause however he is a very very private person and even to me wil do open up and say what is going on in his mind. I am at the point know where I have had enough but can not see a way out. Kids love their dad so much. He is not violent or abusive when drunk just useless frankly. I have supported him all I can but feel unless he admits a problem himself there is no moving forward to try and resolve this. I sometimes feel life is not too bad, it could be worse but then I feel why should I feel anxious everytime he comes home from working waiting to see if he has been drinking or not.

Sorry for rant.

I've just had a look at an online unit calculator and the alcohol units that I KNOW for sure is 67 a week- that's only the ones I know,he is for sure drinking on top of that,he drinks loads of fizzy pop thru the day,which I have smelt and tasted and it's pop- wonder if that's for energy? I think the drink in the morning was the tip of the iceberg in terms of right I need to bring this up properly with him,he's become so so selfish,like he doesn't really care about anything any more

He's been drinking on average the 67 units for the past 2 years,I just have never totted it up,and there are so many people I chat to who say "oh year I easily drink a bottle of wine a night" which has maybe clouded my judgement about what is far too much,I hardly drink at all

@lousummerfie

My ex drunk vast quantities of coke when he wasn't drinking - I think it is something to do with the sugar.

That's interesting he used to drink loads of pop too,maybe it's because alcohol doesn't give you a good sleep even tho you think you have,or maybe it helps with the withdrawal,I know this sounds really bad but I'm tempted to turn back up at the house again next week on a random day to see if he is having another morning drink or should I just accept that o don't need any more evidence,I'm going to try and tactfully bring it up with him

lousummerfie
I was like you a few years back. I called al anon number and at the time felt like a fraud, I seriously believed that they would tell me I was being stupid. I just couldn’t believe that my wife had this issue. Now I’m in I doubt. Hope for the best but expect the worst, that’s probably all you can say. My wife was on a bottle a night, doesn’t sound that far away from normal to most people, but after a while the brand wasn’t important, she’d ask me to buy over the phone and all she was interested in was the % It now starts at 98 units a week and that’s just what I know about.
I would go round and round emotionally, one day sad, then defiant then indifferent. I thought I had my mind set, I thought I was ready until I caught her at 9am drinking spirts. I tell you it knocked me sideways, it’s like nothing I was prepared for. I stopped feeling so angry now I’m just sad. I realised then about the driving, it’s very hard to say this as I feel more guilty then she does. I know what I should be doing but haven’t. I’ve threatened her with the police, taking the keys and reporting her to the insurers. What about our kid ! What about everyone else’s kids, I was/am so angry and appalled I just can’t put it into words. My wonderful wife reduced to this. I would have never believed it. Raincoatnoknickers have you changed your name ? Thanks for making me laugh at this tough time. Thisgirlcanrun: if I’m right, you’ve made the break and then forgiven him and now he’s pulling you back through it all again? Shame on him, that’s just not right.

Please read the attached .....
www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/137214-alcoholism-merry-go-round-named-denial.html
Ask yourself, which role are you in the merry go round named Denial? I'm sadly the Provoker ☹️
Yes Dave, NC!

Raincoatnoknickers
after my last post yesterday’s I was thinking I would attach that document, how weird is that! Its a well written piece, almost like it was written for me at the time but I guess it shows were all the same. Wanted my wife to read it but unfortunately she didn’t want to know. I’m going to look at it again

Oh the denial is the worse. It’s like arguing that black is white with my DM, I went nc a year ago as after 23 years of her drinking and total denial I had had enough. The last time I spoke to her was about a month ago when I lost it after she had been trying to stir shit and turn my gm against me. She slurred down the phone that she hadn’t drank in months, this is the same woman who sat in front of me with her 5th glass of barcardi and coke in hand and swore blind she hadn’t touched a drop all day . I have given her the ultimatum of get professional help or you will never see me or you’re upcoming gc again. She won’t budge, she doesn’t care.
Unfortunately the cycle is repeating and I’ve also married an alcoholic. More fool me!

Sorry to hear your story @Comps83.... it is interesting (and no reflection on you whatsoever by the way) that even your mums maternal instincts cannot pull her away from booze. It must hurt you and I'm really sorry for that 💐 but you are probably well out of the day to day turmoil. I don't understand how my son has managed to do so well in his life with alcohol addiction..I've often thought it must be like having a physical handicap imposed upon you, then being asked to walk a tight rope! He's moved to a new role in his life, its high stakes in every way and if he lets himself down due to booze it would be a quite public and cataclysmic drop. im just holding my breathe and keeping everything crossed for him, but the feeling of dread within me isn't far away, because I know it's there.
Dave181, have you had any thoughts with your wife? If you go to AA yourself and mingle (often they have a tea before hand ....it's a good place to meet people actually) you will find there's a lot of people in recovery who want to put themselves forward to help. There might even be a mum, similar to your wife, willing to actually come round and talk to your wife. You need someone who has about 5 years sobriety under their belt. Let me tell you, there is no one who really understands the mentality of an alcoholic like a recovered alcoholic; they can get through to them.

Raincoatnoknickers
Believe me I want to but shes extremely paranoid, I think she believes if I go I will leave her. After my confronting her at the weekend about driving and so on she’s been better this week, I know it’s foolish to read too much into it but it’s still positive. 2 years ago she gave up for October, although some days I wasn’t so sure, but nevertheless it was noticeable, it makes me wonder just how far she is along with this, she’s also got a part time job and manages to remain sober for that (I think) I used to ask her “if you can do it for them why not us” I think this is why it took me a while to believe she was an addict, it just looked as if she was doing it deliberately to escape her surroundings. Maybe she is.
You seem very proactive, has your partner found anywhere to post? I’ve ended up here as I couldn’t find anywhere to go, saying that though I’m glad I did.

Dave101- I can relate to when you say if she can do it for her job why can't she do it for us?- I feel I am having the same thoughts and feel like maybe he is just not wanting to be at home and it's me and the kids which are the problem,but then I spoke to al anon who basically said (in a nice way) me and the kids are not even on his radar,and I hadent looked it like that before,I was assuming he was thinking like a person who doesn't have an addiction. Has your wife's appearance changed a lot? Her personality? My husband has become very selfish and doesn't seem to care about anything,even himself in a way,he's never raised his voice or been violent,he's just quite arsey when he's drunk

Dave and Lou...I've been really fortunate in some ways in that my son got a care worker and I received coaching from the mental health services....my DS actually accessed this support for himself, but it isn't now drawing to a close. Behavioural Coaching for you through this situation is invaluable. I have on the whole found it one of the loneliest, emotionally isolating times in my life. I've found myself avoiding a lot of people particularly the jolly, keeping up appearances type. On the other hand, I've also been blessed with a lot of very kind friends who've felt my pain very acutely. Where abouts in the country are you? PM Me.....i might know some organisations if we are in the same neck of the woods....
Reading the Merry Go Round, Dave you come to realise that a dynamic within the alcoholics "circus" or "bubble" has to shift for change to potentially come. The longer the Merry Go Round goes on around them, the less likely it is to happen. Sadly even when the Merry Go rOund is stripped away, for some it's still not enough....and these are the poor souls that we see day to day possibly sleeping rough or living alone denying that there's anything wrong. It's a premature death that's awaits for sure. Your wife has bloody good reason to fear you leaving her. Say you want some space for a couple of nights, see if she can stop over somewhere. Then take it from there.
Another idea (I'm full of them) is trying something like One Year No Beer....so instead of freaking her out with the prospect of lifelong sobriety try a step at a time approach??? A dynamic has to change though, For me....that just happened to come to us.

@lousummerfie
Yes she’s changed, probably more then I realise as it’s been over a long period. Sometimes I feel like I’ve got another teenager in the house, she doesn’t appear to have the same concerns as me regarding the family as a whole, mostly her comments are about how she’s not got the life she wanted, we don’t really have a home structure any more, she’s disinterested in most things after 5 o’clock. One thing I would say is that it depends on what she’s having as to who she is. Spirits are definitely the worse of the two, wine being the other. Wine is easy, fuzzy if you will and pretending to be sober, spirits on the other hand is argumentative and spiteful and couldn’t care less who knows. I didn’t really consider that we as a family didn’t factor in this, I guess that actually makes sense. Because it always started just before I got home from work I just naturally assumed it was because of me.

@Thewayforward
You say your DH is a very very private person. The more appropriate word here is secretive. The feeling you describe of being anxious waiting for him to come home is also often described as “walking on eggshells” which is a direct indicator for unreasonable behaviour.

It is your choice if you want to live like this. After four years I couldn’t stand it any more and walked away, babes in arms. I had been thoroughly brainwashed into accepting his behaviours and it took me years of therapy to realise what had happened to me.

@Dave181
Chalfont is right. Your house has to become an alcohol-free zone as the most basic first step.

The selfishness of the addict prevents you from running a ‘normal’ home where you are able to enjoy a glass or two yourself. You are not an addict (I assume). She is. That’s like thinking you can keep heroin in the house.

You are covering for her - particularly with the kids - and this is a form of enablement. While you cover for her, you are enabling her behaviour.

There is absolutely no point in getting into an argument with an addict. You cannot reason with them. They employ a technique known as DARVO. If you're not familiar with this you can look it up and read more about it. This techniques means that you will always be blamed and she will always be the victim. DARVO - denial, aggression, reverse victim order.

@Chalfontstgiles has given very insightful and good advice. As has @Raincoatnoknickers

I have learned my lesson about alcoholics and I now choose not to engage. My father (who I adored) was one. Then I married one without realising and it nearly destroyed me. My brother is a pathetic self-pitying totally hopeless alcoholic too. Everybody tried, but his priority is getting smashed, talking shit, and crying into his beer.

You cannot reason with alcoholism and the only way to restore normality and sanity is to not have it living in your house.

@Raincoatnoknickers
I’m glad your full of ideas, that’s all we can hope for here. I know how you feel with the loneliness, I can’t really talk to my friends as Im fearful they will treat us differently, same for my family, once the cats out of the bag and so on. My wife’s difficult and that’s my problem, I’m convinced there’s underlying issues but I’m not sure if that’s caused this or this is feeding that, do you know what I mean ? She’s just got so much resentment inside that it’s hard to get her to reason. Here’s something else, when I do try and make changes we’ve argued, then the following day she can’t remember and I then have to repeat the whole thing again and we argue, it’s sole destroying. I wish she’d get help but I can’t see it. My daughters friends mum passed away last year as a result of alcohol abuse. I met her a couple of times, she seemed a bit off her game but not that you’d really notice, it was very sudden when it happened, sudden and painful. I thought that would have opened her eyes but no. Oh and just one other thing she has said once or twice if I left her she would harm herself.

F!cking hell @Sicario*, hugs 💐 Some people do pop out the other side, dry, reformed whatever. I've met them at AA. They look like a weights come off their shoulders. You also see them kind of fascinated to see people wrapped up in the struggle ....it's a small though they need to witness the pain each week to remind themselves never to go back there again. However I just believe they've got to want it and you've got to hear them say it...."I don't want this anymore" or "I'm want to stop". I've not had that yet....I've just had a vague "I'll try" then relapse. ☹️

@Sicario
Thanks for your comments. I know you are right about a dry house. I’ll look into DARVO but the meaning just about sums it up. It’s just a shame that despite knowing all we know about how people react to being an alcoholic, it’s almost textbook, why can’t we find a way of stopping it.

Dave - if you left her she'd harm herself! This is emotional / domestic abuse of the worst kind, it really is. I'm sorry you're going through that. It's dispicable. Self harming is something people do compulsively to bring calm or divert from internal pain. It's not a spiteful, angry, "look what you made me do" thing. I'm sorry, don't allow her to do that. She's already harming herself anyway with the drink. Outrageous behaviour that is a shabby attempt to leash her to her. 😡 Talk and get professional support via AA Dave ...don't hesitate. Let her hurt herself.

....and If she does hurt herself you take her straight to A&E with written note from you to give to the Dr (it will be a psych team) saying she needs a psychological assessment, she's self harming, you are worried that you can't keep her safe. If she threatens suicide as revenge say you'll contact the GP and tell all and say she requires a 28 day section. 😡 Do not let her frighten you, because that's what she's trying to do to you.

NOBODY can stop an alcoholic. Only they can choose to stop. @Raincoatnoknickers - yes I met some lovely recovered addicts at open AA meetings, but with many of them, their damage ran deep and their scars were all too visible. I also decided that I did not want to be sucked into that world, even by association.

To live with an addict, you will have to bend and bend until snapping point. Children see everything and remember everything as they become adults. The damage done to children living with an alcoholic parent is immeasurable. They grow up in a landscape of walking on eggshells, broken promises, repeated arguments... we all know that list goes on.

My unequivocal message to anyone living with an alcoholic is this: they either stop, or move out. There is no middle ground. And once stopped, you may discover that you can't live with them anymore anyway. The destruction they wreak is awful.

When my ex husband realised I was serious about divorcing him, he begged me to take him back, promised to change (again), but this time I felt absolutely nothing. He couldn't believe it. Last I heard he was onto his 5th wife. (This is not a joke. She was his alcohol counsellor apparently )

With your language put the responsibility staight back to her
"If you really believe that your drinking behaviour or my seeking professional support for myself (and I'm entitled to) could force you to cut yourself or contemplate suicide, then I will have no choice but to contact our GP about that and alert them to your mental state - I won't hesitate to take that action"

All this is resonating very close to home with me. Dave’s wife sounds exactly like my mother, and I can vouch for the fact that growing up with an alcoholic parent will cause lasting damage to DC . It’s all encouraging me to remain nc with her and to continue to keep an eye on DHs drinking

@Thewayforward
How are things going with your situation? I do hope you've been able to access some support.

@Raincoatnoknickers
Your right,of course you are I shouldn’t be swayed by these kids if threats. It’s just sometimes I think you can be so shocked by the situation you find yourself in you just don’t know how to respond. I’ve thought long and hard about leaving, but whatever I try and arrange I always seem to go back, I just don’t think I want to leave her enough, she was and sometimes still is an amazing person, she’s just struggling and I’m talking about leaving or am I deluded. Then there’s the kids, despite all that’s gone on they are very protective of her, I doubt they would come with me and then all I’m doing is running away. I’ve been stuck in dilemma for a couple of years now, how stupid is that.

@Dave.....Ask her to leave and stay with family or friends for a couple of nights. How old are the kids? Say she's welcome back when she's serious about committing to treatment - AA / NHS or similar with dates and appointments put in place and no drink within your home. You've a lot to loose in this. I wish you luck, stay strong.