DH in denial.

[Thewayforward]

Morning.

Wonder if anybody could provide advice with this matter.

Essentially DH is an alcoholic but completely in denial. It all came to light a couple of years ago when things got bad however with counselling, support and meds we seemed to be moving in the right direction. Fast forward couple of years and he is back at it again. Although not drinking to the same levels as before it is blatantly obvious that he is. He however denies these claims and says that WE, his family are seeing things and says that he is doing really well. I really feel that he has some deep seated issues which are the route cause however he is a very very private person and even to me wil do open up and say what is going on in his mind. I am at the point know where I have had enough but can not see a way out. Kids love their dad so much. He is not violent or abusive when drunk just useless frankly. I have supported him all I can but feel unless he admits a problem himself there is no moving forward to try and resolve this. I sometimes feel life is not too bad, it could be worse but then I feel why should I feel anxious everytime he comes home from working waiting to see if he has been drinking or not.

Sorry for rant.

Chalfontstgiles
Your a much better person then me, I’ve often started conversations avoiding blame and so on but i get frustrated by the constant denial and manipulation of the argument by my wife, I always end up regretting what I’ve said, well most of the time anyway. I know her and this isn’t the person I know but she won’t take down the barriers it’s like she can do something but chooses to drink anyway, there’s definitely three of us in this relationship, her friend booze is always being invited round on every occasion or factors in every conversation, if I choose not to join in I’m criticised and blamed for spoiling things or not helping. Apparently I need to do more. As for the groups I can’t just disappear and she’s aggressive towards me attending them. I would believe me. Now for the doctors, she’s scared stiff of what they will tell her and so therefore refuses to discuss it. She must be petrified, but is so unpleasant about it. I confronted this issue last night and although no drinking took place (as far as I know) the evening was fraught and unpleasant to the point where I feel she believed I was the one who needed to apologise. I can’t see a way out.

Dave...it is bloody awful and if I could pat your shoulder I would. Nearly everything you say chimes with what we've been through; deeply loving a fundamentally nice person whose been hijacked by booze but loathing their behaviour. The balance of power in our relationships is different; parent (my home my rules) and you as a husband. My sons drinking totally killed mine and my husbands enjoyment of alcohol. We hate it now. We can't see it as a nice thing any longer so we don't drink. Our house became a zero tolerance of alcohol place for our sanity not our sons. If he wants to drink we make him do it outside not under our roof. Even so, he persisted in hurting us and breaking this rule.
I have other children to care for Dave, you have children to care for ......you have fucking rights or you can't be a sane Dad. I'm not trying to stoke you up here to go off and have another fight with your wife; that sounds like the last thing you need, I know that pain. But you can't break man, you're carrying the family; as I am too.
I know moneys tight, but have you considered a one day Allen Carr seminar; it's low key, fast and apparently a high success rate? They're in Birmingham, Manchester and London....that might work.
My advice is don't engage with her in rows when you find stuff....tell her you've found it and leave her with just her sad drinking ...or she will be adept and turning around virtually anything you say and blaming you. This is how it works. Leave her to experience the natural consequences of her addiction. If she pukes, pop her into the recovery position and leave her ; clothed if necessary, blacked out in her own sick. The more you try and fuss around and tidy up her addiction the longer it may take for her to reach a rock bottom. That rock bottom might be one of her kids seeing her sprawled out telling her she's a disgrace......I know it's hard but let it happen. Go to Al Anon and ignore the show down afterwards. This is tough love Dave. Hope this helps.

I meant to say on tough love, that my son leaves home next week. If it doesn't work out for him due to booze....I do not want him back home. We are at breaking point.

Dave - within your immediate and extended family, who knows about the problem?

Chalfontstgiles
Your situation sounds terribly sad, I’m worried/upset/angry with my wife but I just can’t imagine it being one of my kids, it’s a different bond, it must be heart breaking for you both. I’m ashamed to say I’ve not made my house an alcohol free zone, to be honest I don’t think I could. I do enjoy a drink and feel bitter that this is all having to stop, only one other person knows of this situation on my wife’s side and they have turned a blind eye, I have tried several times to move things along like telling her sibling and have also said on several occasions that I wanted her to leave if she wasn’t prepared to get help but nothing has changed, and now like an idiot I’m just sitting here hoping it will all just go away. All I can do is keep up the normality with the kids while mums in bed sleeping it off. I admire your stance with your son and hope that he can seen what he is doing to you all. You know what really upsets me is when you hear other people laughing about this sort of thing like it’s just an amusing little problem, even in films the drunk mans the funny man.A friend of mine sent me an email last year catching up, he found it amusing that an old friend of ours wife had become an alcoholic. It’s so destructive and yet people find it funny. It’s one of the most scary and depressing thing I’ve ever had to deal with, and I’m not even really dealing with it yet. What a world.

2 days ago I came home unexpectedly as I had forgotten something at 9am and my partner got a shock and hid something quickly behind a sofa cushion,turns out it was alcohol (not hard stuff) which he said he was finishing off from last night,he's always liked to drink but this is the first time I've caught him doing this
Thoughts?

lousummerfie
Is it just the two of you ?

@Dave181....it is not uncommon for an alcoholic to have a "public enemy # 1" ....a partner or parent - whoever it is that's coming between the drinker and the drink. It horrible but that's what this disease does. People completely underestimate in our society the incredibly addictive nature of a core substance that's so easily and cheaply available....a bottle of budget vodka is £10 / 26 units.....incredible. Eric Clapton struggled with a lot of substance abuse, but the toughest of all was the drink because of the easy availability and the likelihood of relapse. My son is an achiever, highly functional. You look at him, he doesn't fit the image people hold of an addict. I've had disbelief from family members who have called me paranoid. And it's not until i show them photos of the latest stash that I'm reluctantly believed.
Im trying hard to think of an angle here that might 'get through' to your wife. Is she money motivated? Have you added up the annual cost of her drinking and thought about the family benefits that money might well bring.....uni costs for the kids, holidays etc. Might she agree to trying a supplement called Kudzu Root and radically reducing her intake with the unspent cash going into a pot?

@lousummerfie....early morning drinking most certainly a big red flag as often done to negate hangover/withdrawal from previous night. Doesn't mean you've got an alcoholic on your hands though. Have a poke around for empties and be wary of over use of mints, toothpaste and unexplained popping out. Surely you need to ask questions right?

I’m so sorry I realise I have jumped on to this thread instead of starting another one- sorry to the original poster 🤦‍♀️

No we have 2 children,he’s been hiding alcohol in the shed which I found when I was looking for something else,and lied and moved it

Sorry he lied and moved it not me!

@lousummerfie....I'm truely sorry to hear this. Yes, hiding drinking, drinking alone at funny times is a problem drinker. He might be an alcoholic he might not be an alcoholic, hard to say. But problem drinker, yes. @Dave181 and @lou..,,you're talking here to the mum of a 19YO alcoholic. Please do your best to intervene or force an intervention to get your partner to agree to support. Your kids are 3/4 times more likely to become problem drinkers themselves. There's a genetic predisposition though we are actually not drinkers, never have been and no history of alcohol abuse. The pain I feel for my son is like a stab in the heart. I live with that pain each and every day and I pray for his realisation to make and maintain lasting change. 😥

Unfortunately the alcoholic has to want to change their behavior and be willing to do so, as al-anon has taught me - we did not cause it, we cannot control it and we can’t cure it.
My husband who I have know for 12 years and been married for 7 yrs has told me many times that he knows what he does is unhealthy, he wishes he didn’t do it but he cannot stop.
It got to a point where I wasn’t happy living at home with him and I left him in 2017, went to live at my mums, started going to al-anon (for myself)
He went to Inclusion service and tried to cut down, but since I have moved back in with him he has disengaged from recovery.
Now I have set clearer boundaries for myself e.g not cleaning up after him if he soils himself, not giving him lifts to pubs etc
He knows if he loses his job, it will be up to
Him to get another one and that I will not be able to support our mortgage on my income

Sometimes I worry about what the future may bring and the damage it is doing to his health - but then I remember to take one day at a time - because that is all we have

Some of my fav quotes

@Thisgirlcanrun....I like your quotes thanks - especially the ‘one day’ 🙂 I don’t disagree with you about the drinker wanting to stop. But I do believe that family can sometimes but sadly not always help a person to reach their rock bottom. I went to one Al Anon meeting and a drinker decided enough when he knocked on his mother’s front door and she told him to “fuck off” through the letterbox. Another drinker had family members one by one read aloud to the denier their fears and worries for their loved one; a sibling saying they thought their sister would probably soon die jolted them to make change. However I think as time goes in the drinker becomes sort of desensitised to the pleas of family, I’ve falken in my knees and begged; it didn’t work. I’m now hoping and praying that a significant change in life role might bring lasting change for my DS but there’s no guarantee sadly. I cry about this to myself in private nearly everyday. I feel like a curse has hit him and I as his mother.

@lousummerfie......on reflection to me it sounds like you are in early revelation stages and you do actually have the opportunity of a shock intervention with your DH right now.....and I would urge you to grab that intervention with both hands and take a very tough love approach "this has to stop right now.....we have kids to think about ......what on earth were you thinking of......your behaviour is jeapordising everything we have......perhaps you ought to move out if you cannot stop.....I can't believe you've done this......at the very least let's go to AA together, straightaway, this Friday"
This kind of thing...My DS was suicidal and self harming. I just couldn't take a hard line. But as time goes on a drinkers lying becomes the "new normal" and they start twisting and manipulating big time. The disease becomes chronic and progressive too...harder and harder to unwind. You do or may have a good window, I'd grab it if you can.

Chalfontstgiles
I’ve tried all points of reason I can think of, when I get to the financial my wife usually gets annoyed as she sees it as something for her that I’m complaining about financially, she’s very much in denial, if I ask her anything it’s always a hand on heart no until I confront her with evidence but then as a result of showing my hand she moves everything around.
Lousummerfie: sounds like the problem im having you almost need to just watch in silence to find out what your dealing with, I found most items in places my wife probably thought I wouldn’t look like in the washing machine, ironing pile, washing basket, behind the microwave and also hanging between her clothes in the wardrobe but then there’s also the obvious ones like in draws of her bedside cabinet. Also my wife’s always got a bottle of water on the go in her bag, I have a terrible sense of smell so I can’t tell anyway. I was thinking you almost need a breathalyser in the house but what kind of a life is that.
Lousummerfie: is your partner at home alone often ? One thing I’m learning which has been told to me in the comments above is that it’s often further along then you realise.
Last week I discovered my wife drinks during the day, and then goes to do the school run. I couldn’t even get her to see that was wrong. It’s only a little drink apparently. She’s promised not to do it again, but it’s a hollow promise what thisgirlcanrun says is so very true and I don’t think my wife’s willing to give it up.
Everyone here is so brave. I really appreciate everything that’s been said.

Chalfontstgiles
Do you think it’s worth discussing this is with the kids ? I’m concerned by your 3/4 times comment, and it’s been mentioned previously. I try and play it down but would it be better to be honest ? How do you go about it all as they can’t attend groups can they ?

@Dave181

To be honest I think you need to take the kids and walk away or ask her to leave.

My line in the sand was when I discovered he drank neat vodka while in sole charge of them.

I realised then It had gone past having a drink when everyone was in bed and if he was willing to do that what else would he do

I decided I could no longer leave him in sole charge of them during the day not knowing if he would have a drink. If something happened I could never forgive myself.

If your wife regularly drinks before the school run you may find the decision is taken from your hands if the school / someone else reports her.

@Dave181....definitely buy a breathalyser. We have one. A good one it's called Alco Sense Excel off Amazon. She must not drive under the influence - end of. She could kill herself, your kids or another innocent.....just imagine. If she says under the influence make her pay from her pocket for a taxi.
Yes you should talk to the kids. She has a habit, she's an addict ..,this isn't normal life by a long shot. Upping sticks is not easy. But I do think red lines have to be drawn - no drink in your home; committing to a treatment plan via AA or similar. If she can't do this, I'd start talking about her needing the space elsewhere to carry on her chosen way of life...and then quickly get into the nitty gritty ...what could she afford, a studio flat, room In a shared house etc? I know this sounds brutal Dave, but I've told you I feel I could divorce my own child over this alcoholism I would do it, but I can't.

Sorry meant to say NC

Dave101- he always seems to have a bottle of pop,I smelt it once but couldn't detect anything. He has his own business so he is by himself a lot and we live somewhere where there are a lot of hiding places- I know it might be silly but I keep thinking is this really a big problem as he's not drinking hard stuff,or am I just in denial,or don't a lot of people drink every night?,I think it's the hiding alcohol,lying,and then catching him having a drink the other morning- he's put on weight but doesn't seem to eat as much as he used to,I always think of I can smell it on his breath it must be from the night before but now I'm not so sure,I did notice a couple of months ago he had serious shakes at lunchtime,and I've never seen it since so that makes me think his drinking has progressed? How are things with your wife at the moment? Did you try to address it with her? I feel like I am waiting till almost things get worse as I just can't work out how much of it is a problem 🤦‍♀️

Dave181 - put the onus and responsibility of your language back onto her and her chosen behaviour to continue to drink. Make her take personal responsibility. Don't talk about punishment or sanctions; it won't work and will inflame a row. Instead talk about natural consequences: so if you drink, I take away the car keys (because I don't want the kids injured) If you drink under our roof ; I don't say stop, I say do it under your own roof.......

@lousummerfie....bloomin ask him. Get a pen and paper add it up. Or would he just avoid this discussion? My DC just avoided and that was a bad sign. I believe at the worse point he was on 50 units a week....every week for months. Morning bile and a vile mood are giveaways. Also the craves from late afternoon / early evening, pre food were also giveaways.