DS asked me today what his (birth) father looked like

[Kewcumber]

DS (4) was in the back of the car on the way to nursery this morning and asks "what did my father in Kazakhstan look like?"

I was completely floored as he's never volunteered a single question about anything adoption related, though he is currently very interested in why he doesn't have a daddy.

It made me feel sad that:

a) I couldn't tell him a thing because no-one knows
b) it kinda signalled the end of the honeymoon period where he was only mine and the realisation that something came before me has obviously just dawned.

WHat could I say? I just said that I was sorry , that I didn't know as I'd never met him. That if he looked anything like DS he was probably a very handsome man and that we could look at pictures later of men from Kazakhstan and try and draw a picture together of what we think he might look like.

Not really sure what I expect anyone to say - just wanted to offload.

That's sad but I think you handled it really well kewcumber. I've noticed on other threads that you have tried to make contact with birth family. Do you know what any of his family look like?. If so perhaps you can assume a family likeness.
This all makes me realise how lucky I am in that I have a huge amount of info about dds birth family.
You always give others such good advice on here, I'm sure you will cope brilliantly. I think drawing a picture of what you imagine he looks like is a lovely idea.

I think you handled that very well!

I think you gave him a lovely answer.

Dolphin - sadly absolutely no information at all. BIrth mothers details were false so a complete deadend - she didn't give any information about the father. So really no truthful information.

I wish now I had tried to find some staff at the hosptial where he was born to see if they could remember anything about this mother but the chances are a year afterwards they probably wouldn't have even then.

I will put another ad in a local paper under her assumed name saying there is "news of family importance" when he is 5 and probably again when he is 10. Just on the off chance that her situation may have changed and she may be prepared to come forward. But not much chance I think.

That is sad. It's lovely that you have made such an effort to try to find some history for him. Do you know of any other adopted children from Kazakhstan maybe talking to others when he is older would help.

im dreading those kind of tricky questions.its amazing what they come out with when you dont have eye contact.dd has asked most of her questions whilst i have been driving or putting her shoes on at the bottom of the stairs.
we have no photos of dd1 or dd2 birth parents,no names or i.d of both fathers either.its a bit daunting kew when you realise whats to explain.good answer though even though you were cought on hop.

DS hasn't asked this yet. I'm not sure what to tell him if/when he does as we don't have photos of his birth mum and she refused to say who his birth dad was.

I wonder if the questions are coming earlier from your DS than from mine because you and he look different from each other. DS and DD look as though they could be our birth children, so perhaps in DS's mind his birth dad might not look very different to DH.

the photo of Kaz men is a good idea. we struggle with DD as she is mixed heritage but we dont know what IYSWIM

when they are little they are mostly focussed on what people look like eg their physical appearance

but in a few years he will be able to understand more about people's characteristics and personality. so you will be able to say things like

well we don't know what your birth father/mother looked like. but i think one of them might have liked music because you are a very good singer /like sport / artistic / whatever

though i realise liking rugby might come from his welsh side

Agree with hifi - these questions have often come when in the car outside lane on M25 etc
and I also believe there is a reason for this. I've often found that I've answered in the best way I coiuld and tried to provide a n atmosphere in which further discussion would be comfortable (retire to the inside lane not "we can talk about that when we get home" )but that when young a simple answer sufficed and I felt it important to be guided by them and that their questions were an indication of their readiness/need for info but that they didn't necessarily want a full blown discussion with info they hadn't asked for.
FWIW I think your answer was the best and agree with Kristina that characteristics have become more important as they have got older. We've celebrated their gift of strong teeth (!), musical abilities, kind and caring personalities, agility, good looks, beautiful smiles etc much of which has NOT come from us. We do smile a lot though

Hi - sorry been away for the weekend with no internet access

I think DS has raised it, not because he is conscious of the difference between us (because to be honest I'm really sure he notices as the moment - he has many friends with parents of two different races and two friends (siblings) who have also been adopted transracially) but becasue he is very conscious that he has no father. I think that he has picked up on a line in our discussion of his life story - that every baby has be made from a mother and a father.

I think it has finally dawned on him that he has a father somewhere - interestingly he has no interest (at the moment) in his birth mother - I guess as he has a mother he doesn't yet feel the loss of his birth mother so is less concerned by it.

To a lesser degree Kris we have the same problem - everyone guess is that DS is not full Kazakh but no idea how much is. My guess is that his BM was full kazakh because of the name she gave, its possible that his father was "european" and that he has just inherited predominantly his mother looks, or that his father was half kazakh half European but its also possible that his father was full kazakh but a throw back to the original Turkic Kazakhs who were more european looking (brown hair and more European features pre Genghis!).

Dolphin - I was terrified that I would find her - and then when I didn;t I was relaly sad for DS - the bitter sweet truth of adoption! I set up a yahoo kazakh adoption group and we try to meet up 3 or 4 times a year.

Thanks everyone - it's nice to hear others experiences. Does it ever stopped ambushing you when you're not expecting it?

Sounds like you said just the right thing - and I am full of admiration for all your efforts to find birth family. I know more or less eactly where DS and DDs birth family are but there are some very compelling reasons why they don't! And I am more than happy to go along with this although I know one day we may have to deal with it.

I am afraid that it never seems to stop ambusing you although it does get easier to deal with. I had a conversation with DD recently where she really pressed me on exactly why her birth mother wasn't able to look after her. She thought it was for something very mild and I really struggled to give her the truth i.e. she was not removed from her birth parents because they just happened not to give her a warm enough coat (or something similar to that) without then painting an awful picture of her birth family. I don't want her to think that this huge event happened for some trivial reason but at the same time, if I try and get across something of the enormity of it (which is what she was asking) then I risk breaking the 'rules' about being positive about birth family. Somehow 'she really wanted to care for you but she just wasn't able to' doesn't quite do it for DD any more!

There will be more conversations for us all!

never jam today - i don't think the " rule" is to always be positive about the birth family. I think best practice is to be honest about the birth family in an age appropriate way, and to be as positive as possible under the circumstances

i also believe that your child should have all the background information that you have before their teenage years, especially if they are asking for it.

IMHO you need to tell your DD the truth in an age appropriate way. most schoool aged children can be told the basics of addiction and they usually have an idea of how to care for a baby or young child, therefore what would be neglect

Agree with Kristina - I wasn't ever told to be "positive" about the birth family but truthful. So at 5 "she/they could only look after themselves" is appropriate but no doubt wouldn't cut it for an adult.

Difficult or not (and I don't envy you) the story is hers, warts and all.

Kristina & Kewcumber - yes you are both right and certainly my DD will have all the info I can give her although whether she will have it all before she is a teenager, I don't know as I also agree that she needs it in a way that is appropriate to her. The particular issue in this senario was, in fact, how little she thought it took for someone to be deemed 'unable' to look after a child. Her palpable shock when I explained (carefully!) at least some of what went on, albeit some of the milder stuff, was a testament to her strong views on what is acceptable for parents to do/not do. Her life story book is very non specific and she has never shown this level of curiosity before. Both my children ADORE small kids and love looking after them - my DS has recently said he would be interested in being a children's social worker when he grows up. I am also probably a bit too protective at the moment, the three of us have been through a bit of a tough time recently and I always have an overwhelming desire to protect them from certain things. Wrong I know as they do need all the information they can possibly have.

I suppose I was being a bit tongue in cheek about the 'rule' although it certainly can come across like that when you listen to others professionally involved in this area and/or read the literature. Trouble is I have always thought that some of the time I have broken the rules a bit in the way I have done things - I feel justified when I look at my kids but I am a bit defensive! Sorry if it comes across that way!

At the end of the day I always (selfishly?) go back to my need to do what I feel is right for my children and I guess my point was about how the questions keep coming (quite rightly) but often when you are not prepared! My children are nothing if not a bit 'random'. It is in fact quite rare and sometimes I think they should be MORE curious (my DS has, however, been explicit about the fact that he does not wish to talk about things - and this is not me avoiding the issue and I am aware that this will change - there I go again defensively)

neverjamtaoday - i understand completely the desire to protect your children - its normal for any parent and particularly those of us whose children have suffered great trauma and loss.

but sadly the reality is that you cannot protect them from it - they have already lived it. its in them and is part of them - as kewcumber says its part of their story. it wont go away by not talking about it if they want to. you need to be a safe place where they can try to make sense of all the confusing things inside them. this is especially true if much of this happened when they were pre verbal, as they will struggle to express it with words

i know its very, very difficult, but your children will pick up your reluctance to deal with theses feelings ( it sounds like your son has already). maybe you need to be open with him and explain why you find it hard to talk about it? Just a thought.....

Oh blimey - well the plot thickens...

DS announced to me after we read Hansel and Gretel (horrible father takes children into woods 'cos wicked stepmother says so not choice of book but DS's)

"My father in Kazakhstan is horrible"

Oh Lordy.

"Well we don't know that, honey he might be nice or horrible. Why do you think he's horrible?"

"Stop talking now mummy - read the book"

End of conversation.

Is there a fast forward button on DC's anywhere?

maybe he is horrible because he made DSs birth mum put him in an orphanage??? Just guessing..............

Kew, I have a son of the same age, and he is often declaring things as 'horrible' or 'besgusting' with little or no reason.

He could be venting his confusion at his biological father's absence if he doesn't know any other single parented children - would it be a good idea to join gingerbread?

don't think so Kris because he currently shows little interest in BM and doesn't seem at all concerned about living at the babyhouse when I came for him. Only today he made me show him videos of him at the babyhouse and is generally quite interested in stories about it.

Colditz we do know many single parents - some who adopted as single so have genuinely no father and a couple of friends whose fathers are not at all involved and are no-where in evidence. However there are no single mothers at his current nursery and unusually quite a high proportion of fathers do pick up and drop off and I think we have at least one SAHDad. I think thats where its coming from.

I don;t know where the "horrible" tag is coming from (unless its a simple as the father in Hansel and Gretel) but he didn't seems upset or concerned when he suggested it.

Would be so much easier if I really understood what was going through his mind and what the "correct" reponse would be

I can just hear one of my children saying that. Possibly the line of thought went "dads are horrible. So my dad is horrible"

I guess he will go through many shades of feeling about his various parents as he grows up. Still, at least you're unlikely to get "Daddy is a stupid violent git and I wish he was still in prison" as we do.