I can't believe how people are talking about adoptions ...

[ellabella4ever]

... on the In the news section. They are discussing the recent case where Appeal Court judges have decided that the medical evidence against a couple who had their three children taken off them was probably flawed. However, the judges believe it is in the best interests of the children to remain with their adoptive parents.

What I can't believe is the number of people who think the kids should be returned to their birth parents and that the adoptive parents are being selfish in not offering to do so.

Thought I'd ask for the views of other ADOPTIVE parents.

My DD is 4.3 and we adopted her when she was 12 months old. Can you imagine the grief and trauma it would cause her if she was taken away from us - her mummy and daddy!

I agree with almost everything you sadi Nas except the conclusion - in my case I would say let the children stay with their current parents as that is who they know and love NOW. IN in some cases they have been paretns for longer than birth parents.

But then, I would say that wouldn't I.

Is there not a case to be made out for moving slowly towards a more open adoption, where the children are at least introduced the bio parents as additional figures in their lives? Or is that not a possible option?

Yes of course there is a case for that and If it were my child I would encourage contact with any birth family. After the dust had settled a bit. Just at the moment I would probably be clutching my child/children nervously with one beady eye on the door and a nervous tic in the other.

I feel for all of the people caught up in this awful mess.

The BP and the AP because no one is to blame. The AP would have been lead to believe that the children they were adopting had been abused and were in danger. They would not have been aware that there was a question until it was too late. I would also like to add that very few BC actually admit to hurting their children. The BP of my LO swears blind she was a model parent and I know for a fact she bloody wasnt. I was there and saw what she did.

To me the way forward would involve both families working together to share parenting of these children. There are many complicated families in this world. Many children have more than one mummy and daddy. It would take an enormouse amount of work for these families to make it happen. They would need to live close to each other and allow themsleves to share their beloved children. NOT easy.

But if the welfare of the kids IS the most important thing here, its up to the adults involved to make it work.

What has happened is tragic. The system did not work. Yet again, once a decision has been made it takes heaven and earth to unmake it.

I've just seen a post on that thread, and want to say to all adoptive parents, you are not second best.

Thank you jofe04.

chegirl - You are right, the welfare of the kids is the most important thing here and the law believes that it would not be in the best interests of the children to remove them from their adoptive parents. They are now the legal parents of the children. It is up to them to decide how they wish to raise their kids. I doubt many of the bio parents who have been so vociferous on the other thread would want to co-parent with another couple. I certainly wouldn't want to consult my dd's birth mother on things such as her healthcare or education. I'm my dd's mummy and my DH and I will raise her.

Kew - we know we love our kids as much as any birth parent and, equally important, we know how much they love us.

Ellabella,

Yes I know. I am an adoptive parent. Part of being an adoptive parent is dealing with the fact that your children come as part of a package. I am well aware of how bloody hard it is 'sharing' them. Specially with some little skank. In this case the b.parents are good people. I am not suggesting the adoptive parents ask their permission or seek advice on what they do with the kids. I do think that in this case (which is incredibly complicated and very unusual) there needs to be a great deal of contact. Its ironic that many families are pretty much forced to facilitate contact with abusive and fecked up b.parents but in this case all contact was denied.

I would be very happy to pretend that my DS didnt have another mother but I doubt that would be the best way forward for him.

That said, I have enourmous sympathy for the adoptive parents. The last few years must have been hell on earth. I wish them well.

What I find strange about the threads on this case is how so many posters pay lip service to putting the children's needs first, then instantly go on to talk about which set of parents deserve them more/are suffering more, and use that as the basis for a judgement on what should happen next.

I feel terribly sorry for all the parents involved, but have absolutely no opinion on what solution would suit the children best. How could I? I know next to nothing about them.

In principle, it seems obvious that it is best to give serious consideration to how the children can have contact with their birth parents in the future. I can't believe that that consideration is not taking place, though I would understand that the adoptive parents might be in shock right now, and that all concerned might need to reflect and talk awhile before agreeing a long-term solution. There has been an assumption on the other thread that both the social workers and the adoptive parents are hostile to contact with the birth parents: we can't know that and I don't think we should assume that a least-bad solution isn't being worked out.

Hester - I think you make a very good point.
I think there is a lot of rubbish talked about adoption and social services generally. The point is that everyone wants the best for these kids. Both sets of parents love them dearly. It cannot be expected that the adoptive parents will suddenly say 'we love them soooo much we will hand them back' who the hell would do that?

I do think there is a real case for at least some contact here. As I said, contact is often a part of adoptions now days. The contact takes place in sometimes very stressful circumstances when it probably isnt in the childrens' best interests. It clearly (IMO) IS in this case. Those kids are going to know the details of this case when they grow up. Their poor adoptive parents are in for a very hard time if this goes the wrong way.

All contact has been stopped in our case (by SS) because Birth mum is such a bloody nightmare. I sincerly hope that it can take place again one day. I cant bear the woman but I do feel its better in the long run. (I think I should point out that I know her well, I am not some horrible snob, she is a family member).

You raise an important point, maryz. One of the many things we don't know about this case is whether the children have been asked for their views and, if so, what they were.

So many ifs and possibilities - I'm truly astonished that so many people find it easy to form an opinion on the basis of so little knowledge.

(Sorry about all the so's....)

I dont know about any of you but does it cross your mind that your children may return to their b.parents when they are older? I have heard of it happening. In our case DS will always know who she is and where she lives etc. The chances are we will bump into her too.

I know its not likely with closed adoptions but with facebook and myspace etc tracking people down is so much easier. (though one look at bmums Myspace would probably put DS off contacting her for life!).

I have met some amazing, amazing adoptive parents who have had to deal with this. Their children were older when first adopted, I suppose that makes a difference?

I took a decision to try to trace DS's brith mother last year after much agonising ( not my decision to makeetc) and in the end tried because I felt he would have no chance in 10-15 yearstime if he wanted to try so I felt honour bound to try on his behalf.

It was discovered that all the information we haveabout his BM is false (though we arenot sure about the name, likelihood is that it is false too) and there is absolutely no way to trace her and in all probability there never will be.

I find this desparately sad for him to have such a big holein his past and like others have said in my experience of adoptions (which I guess is wider than most of the non-adopters here) the majoirty of adopters want what is best for this children and this almost evitably involves a degree of contact with/information about birth family.

I agree with Mauryz - in this particular case I would be terrified that borthparetns would try to takethe childrne back and would be extremely cautious.

Sorry you're having a hard time at the moment Mauryz, if its any concolation I think my sister wished she was adopted in her teenage years and that she could instead identitfy with a "better" family (though in fact I wished she was too , she was such a pain in the arse!)

My DD was adopted from China and there is no information about her bparents. I feel sad about this because one day when she starts to ask questions about them we will have no answers. Also I would like her bparents to know that she is safe and happy. However, even if I were able to contact them, I would only let DD meet them if she wanted to.

With regard to the Websters' case, I can understand the adoptive parents' reluctance to facilitate contact. The Websters are trying to get the children back and are even threatening to go to the European Court. I would be terrified and not minded to meet them if they were trying to take my child from me.

our social worker has said they are having to look at policies etc now information on bps is relatively easy to come by.
most adopted children will have greater acess to info, i dread any googling of dds bm as she was in and out of prison and its recorded in some local papers. she was pregnant with dd in one .

I wasnt aware that the websters were still trying to get the children back. Of course this would make contact pretty impossible. I dont blame them for trying and I wouldnt expect them to give up for the 'good of the kids' and I wouldnt expect the adoptive parents to do so either!

We know a lot about our bm. I know that has a lot of advantages. But of course she knows a lot about us, including where we live, phone numbers etc. Fortunately it would take a miracle (or more cynically, the promise of money) to get her to bother travelling the half hour to our house.

She does still insist that DD was stolen but I suppose thats her way of dealing with what she did. She will, I have no doubt, tell DD that he was stolen from her and I dread what this will do to him.

Do you remember x factor this year? There was a contestant who had 3 adopted children. I remember feeling that it must have been very hard for thier new parents. Its like every adopted child's dream isnt it? Your 'real' mother a pop star. The world is a far more complicated place nowdays.

I wasnt aware that the websters were still trying to get the children back. Of course this would make contact pretty impossible. I dont blame them for trying and I wouldnt expect them to give up for the 'good of the kids' and I wouldnt expect the adoptive parents to do so either!

We know a lot about our bm. I know that has a lot of advantages. But of course she knows a lot about us, including where we live, phone numbers etc. Fortunately it would take a miracle (or more cynically, the promise of money) to get her to bother travelling the half hour to our house.

She does still insist that DD was stolen but I suppose thats her way of dealing with what she did. She will, I have no doubt, tell DD that he was stolen from her and I dread what this will do to him.

Do you remember x factor this year? There was a contestant who had 3 adopted children. I remember feeling that it must have been very hard for thier new parents. Its like every adopted child's dream isnt it? Your 'real' mother a pop star. The world is a far more complicated place nowdays.

Sorry bout double post . I am able to blame that on DS!

And I meant DS in my other posts. Sorry I have been talking about my DD a lot lately and am confused.