Moving towards permenancy for relatives in care.. what are the chances an adoptive family will be happy to maintain contact?

[SimpleAsABC]

It doesn't look like I'll be able to take the children. For several reasons. Some of which I don't want to into.

What I was wondering though, as the children have been in care three times now in the last two years, i'm assuming that the next step will be to look towards some sort of permenancy planning for the children, which I hope will take the form of adoption.

Unfortunatley I don't think the children will be coming home.

Is it likely the adoptive family (if there is one.. in the future) would allow family to maintain contact with the children?

At present we see the children once a fortnight and their mum sees them once a week. Contact with mum doesn't always go well and can be upsetting for the children. It has been noted that the children repsond much more positively to contact with us (extended family).

Is it likely that SS could stop the parents contact and not ours?

Is this allowed?

Therefore, would this give us more of a chance of maintaining contact in the future?

Sorry if it's all a bit muddled. Have posted on this previously but don't know how to link to them.

TIA

It's unlikely to be fortnightly but there is a presumption that contact of some kind is beneficial to most children unless there are specific reasons why not.

It is definitely possible to have contact with grandparents or siblings or other close relatives and not birth parents. But there may be concerns about information being passed on to the birth parents, and there may be confidentiality issues to consider.

Contact does not always mean direct face to face contact - some kind of letterbox system may also be possible if direct contact is considered inadvisable - this would be for example where the adoptive family write a letter once or twice a year letting you know what the children have been doing, and where you could possibly write one in return.

Hopefully you should be able to work with social services to come to some kind of agreement about contact. Depending on your relationship to the children you may also have the right to apply to court for a contact order, which would set in stone the amount of contact you and the children should have. It is my experience though that judges prefer not to set up a contact order if contact issues can be agreed on an informal basis.

Any contact arrangements would be a "gentleman's agreement" with the adopters. It could well put prospective adopters off though so may not be entirely encouraged by ss. just my experience anyway...

it depends on the age of the children and your relationship with them, but i think the most you are likely to get face to face contact is 3 or 4 times a year and maybe it will drop to a couple of times a year. The children may be placed hundereds of miles away - would you be able to travel?

I'm sorry i 'm sure this is not what you want to hear. But if you are hoping for adoption then the children will need space and time to bond with their new family

as others have said, once an adoption order is granted then contact depends on the goodwill of the parenst. judges are reluctant to write contact into orders as it does not allow for the changing needs and wishes of the children and it interferes with the rights & responsibilities of parents

Ok,

I don't suppose that's so bad. At the very least it'd be good to know how they were doing.

What if they didn't settle though?

What if their adopters were horrible?

Then we wouldn't know, they'd not be able to tell us.

Ridiculous I know. I'm having a hard night.

We have a very close relationship with the children. I cared for one of them and my grandpa another. This is potentially the most awful thing I'll ever say but I hope my Grandpa isn't here to go through adoption, if that's what it goes to.

Although I cared for the lo (18m),often, the eldest was 8 and my Grandpa cared for him almost all of the time. He went home at night sometimes but they were so close.

I do think adoption would probably be the best thing. It'd be so selfish to think otherwise.

Judgey types i'm feeling upset and emotional. Leave me be.

I know this may not help you but I would have been very happy to have grandparent contact reglarly with DS if it were possible. I'm sure some adopters will also feel like that. Assuming the DC's are adopted together which seems likely I think the older child will also have an opinion on having contact. There may be a period of no/little contact just to give them the opportunity to settle and bond with their new parents.

I can understand you feeling anxious about their possible adoptive parents but honestly most of us a really quite nice...

kewcumber i've read a lot of your posts, albeit not on adoption and you do seem... ok

thanks for replying m'netters are lovely.

i think you are safe . most of the adoption regulars are pretty direct but not judgey. most aps have been through difficult times and know that life is rarely straightforward or simple

we do get some visitors from...the other side.....who are often quite rude and judgemental as they have not been there iyswim

but they are usually lured in by provocative thread titles and yours is too practical for them

btw kewcumber is very ok

Yeah, that's the impression I get of her, it was an underhanded compliment!

last time I posted someone came on and was rather rude, I was very hurt.

Oh that was moon dog wasn't it? Just ignore her,she seems to see everything as black and white . She isn't a " regular" here on the adoption threads so you probably won't bump into her again

Well remember Kristina!

If only it was black and white, then it would be soo much easier.

Go to see children tomorrow 5 - 6, can't wait to see them. We only usually go once a fortnight but so much has happened in the last fortnight i.e. Christmas and school holidays, that it's felt much longer.

Another thing was, had a bit of trouble with the hospital on the phone last night, have had two app's for treatment which I've had to cancel due to them conflicting with contact, tried to explain but was told if third app was cancelled i'd be taken off of the waiting list.

Sent a very polite letter stating dates I was available straight after the phone call and the receptionist called me today with an app. Been totally stressing as it seems the clinic is only on a wed or thur and obv I can't do every second one... PANIC OVER. For a while.

Yesterday was a stinker of a day. Hence my foul and quite emotional mood!

hey we all have bad days! especially with all the stress you have been under

that's great that you are seeing the kids tomorrow - i hope it goes well

if the hospital give you hassle again, just ask your GP to write explaining your circumstances. they should only take you off the list if you fail to attend ie just dont turn up, not if you cancel and rearrange the appointment

Thanks for the advice.

Wil let you know how tomorrow goes. Quick cuppa then studying the rest of tonight, 3rd yr uni exams start next week

This must be so hard for you. You want the best for the children, you feel bad that you can't take them in permanently and you want to be reassured that you'll still have some contact. As others have said, if the children are adopted out of family, it would be unrealistic to expect contact on a very regular basis, because the children would be conflicted about bonding with their new family. In my experience as an adoptive parent, social services really encourage some carefully-managed contact to be maintained with birth families and I really think this is right. We maintain contact with our daughter's foster family (she calls them 'our' foster family!) and she has twice yearly supervised direct contact with her birth father. I write letters but her birth parents don't write back. It IS hard to do the right thing all the time - we are only human - but if adoptive parents are willing to take on a group of older siblings, they will, I believe, be open-minded and flexible enough to see that ongoing contact with you is in the children's best interests.

I really wish you well.

Simple- if the eldest child is already 8, what chance is there of them being adopted? 8 is awfully old tbh for an adoptive placement- has it been mentioned by the SWs at all?
I would have thought long-term fostering was more likely.

I think many prospective paretns will consider an older child if they come with a young sibling which I think is the case here. But you are right - we are all assuming they will get adopted which isn;t a sure thing at the moment.

Sorry couldn't resist checking back.

I didn't realise 8 was old for adoption purposes. I'll speak to the SW tomorrow about it, I have quite a good relationship with her, and she is as honest as she can be in the circumstances so she might be able to shed some light.

Is there anything else I should be asking her?

If it was long term fostering, would they remain where they are now?

As far as I know the children were placed somewhere for a night or two when they were removed and then went to N who has been looking after them for six months.

Would it be unreasonable to ask if there is a limit on the time they'll remain with N? i.e. is the only prepared to foster short term or is six months indicitave of something longer?

I don't know, it really pickles my head.

simple- depends what type of fostering the FCs are approved for. It is likely they are short term FCs, so it could mean a change of placement I'm afraid.
Short term can be anything up to 2 years officially... but I know of placements which have been longer.

Thanks

I'll ask tomoro.

Back! There are a couple of meetings next week, sort of reviews I think.

I have no idea how i'd manage it but can't help wishing I could take the children.

Sw will be reluctant to place the children in "permanent" foster care as many of these placemenst break down when the children are teenagers and often have very challenging behaviour.

This is also true to a lesser extent of adoptive placements, but they are free or lower cost to SS and its not SS's problem unless the teen goes back into care

Its also very hard to find adoptive parenst for 8yo who is bonded to his/her birth family and wants to stay with them. they can sabotage a permanent placement for everyone

A permanent Fc placement can be seen as less threatening for the child in the short term but is less secure in the long term

sorry i knwo its not what you wanted to hear

No Kristina,

That's really interesting.

So is placing them with family then something which would be supported?

Obviously I may be bias but surely that overcomes a lot of the difficulties which you are highlighting?

P.S I have to ask (and not at all because it matters).. are you a SW or a AP?

TIA

Absolutely - placing the children with extended family is nearly always the best option, especially for older children. Of course there are lots of issues to be considered, especially with regard to contact with the birth parenst if they are deemed to be a risk to the children.

However, as you know, that's not always possible. Granndparents are old or disabled, siblings have their own kids or are young or just not able to take them. I'm sorry if people here have judged you without really considering how complex these things are

I'm an AP and an adoptee and used to be a foster carer. I am at your suggestion that I am a SW as I am notorious for not having a very high opinion of them LOL

FWIW the social worker we deal with is lovely.. and i've recently applied for the post grad in social work, currently awaiting my results.

I'm 21, no financial back up (other than my parents) no property and just don't know if i'd manage being "on my own" with two kids. Its a huge responsibility to take on.

Simple - I know you said in your OP that there were reasons you didn't want to go into why you couldn't take the children, and I completely respect that. But - your last post sounds like you'd really like to (which I can completely understand). Are you thinking that the SWs wouldn't let you have them? In which case it may be worth having that discussion with them, and perhaps also having a chat with CAB or someone about what benefits you'd get to support you? You don't have to reply to this btw, just thought it might be worth considering...

I know there are some good Sw out there and that's why I try to be as factual as possible and not just "slag them off". But they have a track record of being less than honest with families which makes me angry. many birth families lose contact with children because they didn't act soon enough and SS use the arguement of not disrupting the children one they are "settled". Families are asked to be patient and then this " lack of interest" is used against them. Its the children who suffer

I also think that some do not try hard enough to place children within the family. There is often little support to family carers compared to that offered to foster carers

i remembered that you were a 21 year old student and I can understand why you don't feel in a position to take the children.I know I couldn't at 21. But it doesnt mean that continued contact with you and / or their grandparenst in some form would not be in the children's best interest

I'm sorry, its a very sad situation