SEN support without a diagnosis?

[Violet80]

Really worried for my dsis, she has given me the go ahead to post here on her behalf as she doesn't have MN and just doesn't have the energy to do anything extra atm.

Primary school have told her that her dd aged 5 (my dn) is not entitled to any SEN support at school, as she doesn't have a diagnosis for anything yet, is this true?

My own dd has AUDHD and during the long wait for her assessments her primary school were great, we were told she could have SEN support before any diagnosis was made, and that it's the child's needs that they take into account, not a diagnosis.

Dn is only in year 1 and facing exclusion because of aggression towards the other children and staff, on Friday she hit a child, she has bitten before and despite being v understanding last year in reception, since starting year 1 in September school have completely changed their attitude. We wonder if parents have complained and that's why.

She's on the waiting list for an EHCP and for assessments for autism and ADHD, this could be years though and school are saying no support without a diagnosis! We've offered to lend ds half the cost to go private to cut the waiting time down, would a private diagnosis count the same as an NHS one?

Ds was told when dn was 1 that she didn't have signs of FAS but that they could develop as she got older. This now looks likely with behaviour which has got steadily worse since she started nursery at 3. Birth mum said she drank small amounts during the pregnancy but it was suspected she could be underestimating.

Please any advice appreciated x

https://adhduk.co.uk/right-to-choose/

If you are in England look at right to choose. I'll be pursuing this this week for my foster child. There are some issues with recognition by the NHS particularly if medication is required but its better than waiting years for the NHS to assess.

I'm not sure of the legalities but you would hope that school would be supportive. May be worth contacting your local SENDIASS

They should be giving support if she needs support.
You can apply for an EHCP yourself, the SEN board is very helpful.
You need to show has/may have SEN and school isn’t coping.
She comes with extra money enhanced pupil premium so school has no excuse.

(For you, read your sister)

Schools have a sen budget for children with additional needs. Ehc is only where significant extra funding is required. It does sound like an ehc may be appropriate here but in the meantime school have to meet her needs out of their sen budget.

Absolutely you don't need a diagnosis. I would suggest you contact your local SENDIASS team and get them to organise a meeting with the school. The school are currently gaslighting your daughter - they may stop if they think she has the knowledge to get sendiass involved.

Has school applied for the ehc yet? If not, your daughter should apply now. The LA gives schools very strict rules about what evidence they need to supply along with an application but parents don't have to wait.

Sometimes I think all adopted children should have an ehcp as standard.

She needs to read the nice/sign guidelines on fasd, and go armed to the GP to request assessment. FASD may look like ADHD, or autism, but it's different, with different impairments, that may overlap, but if it's present, the correct diagnosis is important. Any pre natal alcohol exposure can cause it.

I suggest contacting the fasd charities for advice.

If she uses the ASF for assessments, try and get one that assesses everything at once, because once that money is spent, it's gone.

I assume your niece is adopted as you have posted here. Aggressive behaviour could be a stress symptom of her trying to make sense of her adoption or feelings that something is not right if she doesn't know she is adopted and might not ADHD (or similar) at all. Additional emotional support at school or outside school such as a child phychologist who specialises in adoption would be a possible benefit. I don't know much about current SEN arrangements at schools but perhaps the school could look into arranging this as an option for additional on-going support.

Absolutely don’t need a diagnosis for school to be supportive we are in the process of applying for EHCP and have no diagnosis, school have been brilliant. Worth asking the virtual school in your area for support. I spoke to a lovely lady at ours but didn’t need their input as our school are so supportive but sounds like would be useful in your case!

other great advice here already so hopefully you can support your ds exploring a few of these, it is an exhausting world to navigate as a parent

Lots of good advice here. Our adopted sonis the same age and struggling with similar issues. We have had excellent post adoption support and school meetings with them there, and supporting letters for EHCP/needs within school have really meant we have been listened to. My son doesn't yet have any diagnosis but ‘developmental trauma’ is how our adoption support social worker has framed things for school. We also had a very good multidisciplinary assessment funded by the ASF. We now have a very high level EHCP - although school remains constantly on edge.

I am an adoptive mum and a teacher, and I can tell you that there are many misconceptions here regarding the support schools can provide..

First, even though schools have a responsibility to cater for all needs, the safety of the other children come first. The school I work in is great with SEND children. However, we have had a case last year where a child with serious emotional needs and unpredictable behaviour injured other children and had had to be permantly excluded to avoid a tragedy.

Second, SEND budget and Pupil Premium is just a few hundreds a year. That doesn't buy you one to one support. Furthermore, schools have the right to choose how that money is spent, not parents. It could be a sensory room or equipment, a particular intervention packet to support children with their English and Maths, after school clubs and so on.

A diagnosis does not entitle you to one to one support either. I have had many children over the years with autism and ADHD who can cope just fine in class or need just small adjustments. For what you say, this is not the case of your niece. As some people have said before, make sure she is diagnosed properly. The symptoms of early life trauma, autism and ADHD often overlap. Your sister needs to secure some form of therapy.

It seems your niece needs an EHCP. However, getting one can take years. The problem with them is that they do not always entitle you to full time support and even if this is the case, that full time support is not fully funded. Only 60% is. The other 40% must come from the school regular budget. School budgets have been really, really tight for years. I have seen three restructures take place in the last eight years at my school. There is simply no money. So even when schools want to help, their hands are tight.

I really hope your niece gets the support she needs and things get better for your sister. It is a good thing she has you on her corner. My dd has a FASD diagnosis and I know how hard it is to manage.

All the best.