LA post adoption support assessment grrr!

[Bananaketchup]

So after initially asking for help last May I finally got the assessment back from the post adoption team today.

I asked for individual trauma-informed therapy for DD (16) and an ADHD assessment for DS (13). What did they offer, after never meeting the DC and having one teams call with me? Parenting course. For fucking fuck sake.

I've done 5 billion parenting courses. DD is reluctant to engage in therapy, of course she is, she has major trust issues with adults due to her early experiences. They've mangled that into 'she doesn't want therapy and you shouldn't be trying to force her'. I don't want to force her, I want to support her to get help! And yes,I know trauma can look like neuro-diversity, and yes I still think DS may have ADHD. They've taken me saying that the only consequences DD cares about is taking her phone, which is an extremely last resort, and turned it into 'mum's only parenting strategy is trying to control DC with consequences '.

I could cry. I've waited months for them to miss the fucking point. Pupil premium is useless as school don't understand their needs and just lump them in with free school meal kids and offer discounts on school trips, and adoption support fund is useless as the post adoption support team have taken 8 months to make a plan for interventions we don't need and not ones which would help. I'm raging and despairing. Anyone know how much it'd cost to self fund therapy and an ADHD assessment? presumably ££££ as it has to be specific providers approved by Ofsted for adoption support. Fucking fuck the useless lot of them.

@Bananaketchup
Its frustrating beyond words.
Are you in England ? If so you do need go separate the therapy out from the ADHD assessment.
Post adoption support can't do the ADHD assessment - you need to go to your GP. Waiting lists are very long, my current foster child has been waiting for 4 years. However tell the GP you wish to exercise your Right to Choose, and you should get a referral to a private provider. Waiting lists seem be shorter there at the moment.
On the therapy were you requesting funding from the Adoption Support Fund?
Your LA has a legal duty to do an assessment of need. The ASF only supports specific therapies so you will need to check the website to see if what you want is included.
If you're in Scotland @Jellycatspyjamas can probably help, sorry not sure about Wales and NI
Good luck

Infuriating I agree.

I was a bit confused about the difference between asf and post adoption support. Herr all therapy is funded by the asf and post adoption support runs low level support stuff like seminars.

So is it really asf you should be chasing for what you want?

NVR is really useful as a parenting course. Any chance they are offering that?

Re the therapy, my daughter had asf therapy which stopped when she reached 21 but I got in touch with the therapist afterwards and paid privately for a few sessions and it was £90 a session (SW London). You can find people by asking your adoption agency who they use.

Re adhd, similar. But adhd is trickier as you really need a psychiatrist if you want drugs prescribed.

My two were both diagnosed with adhd and we tried the drugs but they made little difference tbh. They both have a cocktail of issues, probably some foetal alcohol, learning disabilities, asd, a genetic deletion, speech and language problems, sensory issues. We found a sensory diet really useful and being aware of what they could cope with and what they liked. So anyway we found OT assessments really useful, also speech and language.

Good luck.

@Arran2024

You can only access the ASF via your local authority
Also infuriating

Thanks for replying, yes we're in England. When I had the interview on teams I said DS needs an ADHD assessment and she said they could refer to a provider who had a paediatrician who could diagnose, is that not correct? Jeez even more useless then I thought then, if we've waited since last May for something that has to go through the GP.

Yes requested funding for therapy via the ASF, this is the write up of the LAs 'assessment' which is the hoop you have to jump through to get ASF funded therapy. What they want to apply to the ASF for isn't what I've asked for or what we need, instead they want to apply funding for a parenting course for me and nothing for DD except the SW will write her a letter explaining that I'm getting parenting help. Yeah that'll meet our needs

Thanks he's as PP said, the post adoption team are the gatekeepers of getting ASF therapy. I can't use ASF if they don't recommend it in their useless assessment.

I've already done NVR, and I don't even know what else

Re ADHD I don't especially want drugs, I want the label(only if he does have it obviously) because his school and the world in general don't understand trauma or attachment but they do understand ADHD, at least to an extent. School have been absolutely useless with how they use pupil premium or in putting in any useful support, but neuro-divergence they have a track record with.

@Bananaketchup

I'd challenge the 'assessment' . Insist that it's done properly, go to head of service if you have to?

Do you have a social worker?

I've emailed back saying I don't agree with the recommendations, that I've already done parenting courses and what is offered isn't anything like what I asked for help with, and pointing out some errors/misunderstandings. Helpfully the email the SW sent with the copy of her assessment had the team manager's email on to send back some tick box mood thing, so I've copied her into my reply. Got an out of office that she's not in til Wednesday so there won't be any quick response (not that they seem to do anything quickly anyway).

We don't have a SW, we don't live in the placing LA so the last time we had any support it was through the placing LA as it was just less than 3 years post order. I don't know any of the adoption or post adoption team in my area.

I thought it was via regional adoption agencies these days. When I first applied it was via my LA but then it moved to the regional adoption agency, based miles from us, where no one knew us.

Tbh it's a lot of effort to get the adhd label for school. A diagnosis might bring help but it might not. My girls' schools just popped the diagnosis letters into their files! Schools should put extra help in from their own sen budget for children who need more support - they are supposed to do this based on presenting needs, not diagnoses. They may well do very little extra for a pupil on top unless they have an ehc plan.

So anyway I was wondering what exactly you want school to do. Does he need additional support to access the curriculum or extra time in exams or do you just want them to be more understanding, less punitive, that sort of thing?

I used to work as an ehc supporter for parents and worked with a lot of parents whose children were struggling at school. I also got ehc plans for both of my two - even though my younger daughter's head told me I had no chance.

Up to the point of the ehcs, we had loads of diagnoses including adhd, asd, PDA, speech and language disorder, an Ed psych report.....school just put them all in the file.

What I would suggest is speaking to an organisation like SOS!SEN about school and getting advice about what to do next, where to spend any money, what to ask school. That's what I did and it was an absolute eye opener for me. And that's how younger dd got her ehc!

What I'd like for DS is the understanding/ less punitive side of things. He constantly forgets and loses stuff and gets punished for it, despite reminders, getting things ready the night before etc. He does a musical instrument lesson which changes day and time every week, and he misses it more than not despite multiple reminders, a post it note on the book of the lesson he'll be in, and it written on his hand- I'd like them to stick to the same time or at least have a reminder in form time or something. Things like that.

For DD she needs therapy but what she gets is 'a chat' with eg her head of year, where she tries to give them what she thinks they want but because her emotional and psychological development is so wonky she'll eg say she needs help with self harm (when she's never self harmed) because she thinks that's the kind of thing they're expecting from kids they pull out for a 'chat'. Then she's shocked that this triggers phone calls home and safeguarding concerns and then has meltdowns every night for a week because she feels shamed she doesn't understand the interactions and is caught out in a lie. It's the opposite of helpful for all of us.

School don't understand attachment and now I feel like the bloody social workers who's entire job is post adoption support don't have a clue about it either. I'm so sick of trying to get support and getting offered stuff that's useless, irrelevant or downright unhelpful instead

I'm sorry it's so hard. My younger daughter says random stuff - for her it is part of her speech and language disorder. We had no idea she had one - we were astonished. It has very little to do with spoken speech but more to do with receptive language and formulating answers. Adopted children often struggle with this because they were not babbled to as babies apparently.

Anyway, I have to be constantly aware that my daughter struggles with social communication and is often unable to articulate how she feels. She creates phantom illnesses as a coping strategy and has had 3 imo totally unnecessary operations ( seriously!) as she is so convincing to medical staff ( she is 25 now so I am not included in her biscuits medical staff).

It causes all sorts of problems for her. She has very few friends, upsets family members and work colleagues. She is often unable to articulate how she feels and makes up phantom illnesses instead.

It is undeniably hard for our young women. There isn't necessarily a solution. We can try to help them but sometimes all we can do is be there to help them navigate what is hard for them (on the plus side my daughter has a job and a very lovely boyfriend, and she lives with him, we couldn't be more proud,).

She did have asf therapy so I'm not knocking it and I would def still pursue it but it wasn't transformative. She will always be vulnerable and need me or her boyfriend close by to support her.

Im sorry its so hard too. When I tried to get ASF funding for therapy they also just decided parenting courses were best -I mean the amount of parenting courses I've done I couldn't believe it! (including NVR but best take home I got was self care is essential tbh, doing everything else). They made me cry as blamed me for having her in education rather than at home, felt like I couldn't win and gave up trying with them.
Our school on the other hand has been good, I think this year has been a change for referral for assessment and you now do a neurodisability profiling tool with your senco and this involves a long meeting with you when you go through everything you think might help and then they activate that (so for me, movement breaks, same teachers etc) and evaluate it over a year or something and then that is the first step towards assessment, its a way of activating whats needed while you wait for the diagnosis - so a way to put help in before you get the diagnosis. Id ask the senco about this? May just be my area I guess. Maybe google it for your area. My DD is only 4 and from school start so far I cant see her lasting in mainstream for long its just too hard for them, even though our sencos been brilliant. Its so so hard so feel your pain.

Anyone know how much it'd cost to self fund therapy and an ADHD assessment? presumably ££££ as it has to be specific providers approved by Ofsted for adoption support.

If you’re thinking of self funding therapy it’s worth knowing the rules have changed in that therapists dealing with adoption don’t need to be registered any more. I’m guessing because the Ofsted required training was both expensive and difficult to access. Would she do art or music therapy? While it won’t necessarily get under the trauma stuff, it would give her a trusting relationship and sometimes not focussing on talking can help young people engage - and arts are incredibly therapeutic. That might help ease her into a more trauma based therapy.

Otherwise I’d look for a relational type therapy with someone who understands trauma. The idea is that the relationship itself is healing and counters the harm done in trauma - it can work at a very deep level with the right therapist and doesn’t need to be very spendy. I have practitioners near me that I’d happily send my daughter to who are around £60 a session. Not being confined to an Ofsted person opens up options, brings the price down and, ironically may give you a better service because you can look for a good fit personality wise instead of looking for particular training. Given the relationship is the best predictor of effectiveness in therapy, that’s a good thing.

Oh I thought the relaxing of the rules about therapists being Ofsted approved was only for adults? Does 16 count as an adult? That would give more options definitely. It'd need someone who understands trauma and attachment, so much of DD masking and flying under the radar gets missed because people don't understand attachment issues. That's really helpful thanks

So sorry to hear all this.

PAS and the ASGSF are useless (from my experience).

I spent 4 years begging for help. My very (child to parent) violent child had been identified age 2 as requiring long term specialist physiological interventions. The only thing I ever got was parenting courses.

In the end I sacked them all off. The stress and the harm for us both by them was far greater than any tiny benefits their parenting courses gave us.

I think we might be adoption twins - my DD was identified in FC as likely to need long term psychological support throughout her childhood. She had life story work aged 5 in which she ran rings round the therapist, theraplay aged 7 in which she ran rings round what I later found out was not even a therapist, not even a SW, but an unqualified SW assistant, and behaviour therapy aged 11 which she just refused to attend

Both my DC are aggressive and violent towards me and each other. 8 months waiting for this poxy report, for it to say I need a parenting course. I think the smug plan for the SW (who has never met my DD and means nothing to her) to write DD a letter explaining that I'm doing a parenting course possibly annoyed me even more. It's shit isn't it?

I think I will just give up, you're right it is not worth the time and disruption it'd take for me to fit yet another parenting course into my life, while DD gets no therapy that she actually needs. That'd be a waste of ASF money, just like the pupil premium the school get and spend on giving me discounts on extra curricular activities she won't do and trips she won't go on is a waste of money. What a shit show.

have you seen https://logosbound.com/childrens-social-care-1

We have had very good support over the years. We paid for a story stem assessment privately when my children were 7 and 8. That assessment highlighted clinical levels in some areas and resulted in ASF funded therapy. Once in therapy, more and more things came to light, which led to more therapy. What I am trying to say is, that it might be worth paying for a private assessment, if you can. Maybe school could fund/part fund it with PPP? I don't know. Some assessments are cheaper than others and some are pointless, so you need to choose wisely. However, that assessment might give you the professional back up that you need in order to get what you want from your LA.

A paediatrician or a psychiatrist can diagnose ADHD. I would only go for a diagnosis if you want medication. There is a study that concluded that children without a diagnosis had better outcomes than those with a diagnosis and the same symptom severity. Medication can be very helpful if your child has moderate to severe ADHD.

You can get EMDR therapy for around £90, music therapy for £80 (London). Both can be funded via the ASF.

EMDR is excellent for trauma and your daughter would not to talk a lot. It is very challenging though. My daughter's therapist offers music, music and imagery and EMDR and that is a good mix of challenging and stabilising therapy modes.

Apparently the type of therapy you request will impact how many sessions the ASF will agree to fund, eg. they don't pay for the same amount of EMDR sessions as music therapy sessions.

I would start writing a log of what is happening and what is going wrong in school and in other situations and write a timeline. The more you document, the more evidence you have.

The laws/rules have only changed for adult adoptees, so those over 18. It is a farce.

Just saw this thread had popped back up. I appealed twice, but just got the same result. The system is fucked. And I ended up talking to another parent on another thread who'd had similar but much worse dealings with their LA - blaming and judging the adopters seems isn't just confined to our shit LA.

DD limped through GCSEs and managed to pass 7 and get into the college she wanted. She's happier there than she was school, no longer self harming but no closer to help. The secondary school referred her to their counselling service (without my knowledge and despite me already telling them a counsellor working with her would be breaking the law) and she got allocated a trainee FFS. Surprise surprise it didn't help but it didn't make her any worse either so there's that.

DS I got assessed privately and he's now got a diagnosis of inattentive type ADHD. We've tried meds but none have helped - makes me question if it really is ADHD tbh but he was assessed by a medical doctor and the diagnosis made by an MDT so it is a legitimate diagnosis. I hoped meds when they were suggested would help him, but not so far. I hoped the label would help him but not much so far with school. He's edging towards EBSA but I'm trying to head it off - school are now asking me to sign an attendance contract, as if they don't know I want him at school!

Pupil premium and the ASF are doing nothing to help us at all, I accept it's great for other families but for us it might as well not exist.

ADHD and Trauma can often be misdiagnosed, i would look at the logosbound guidance send it to your LA and demand a ASSA under the regulations. the more people who press for what our children are entitled to the less chance the LA’s have to hide behind obfuscation.

The difficulty is who are Logosbound? There is nothing to indicate their authenticity. No contact details for a start. And nothing to indicate the authenticity of the ASSA document. It's apparently been produced by Coram but there's no sign of the document anywhere else except on the Logosbound website.

I would need the document to be authenticated before I took it to any SW's.

I am not worried about who produced something if it is accurate. But each to their own. I haven’t found any holes in it. It incorporates the CoramBaaf guidance it doesn’t purport to be them as I read it.

Whether it is accurate or not is the LA's problem, not yours. At least that would be my attitude towards this.

As far as I have been able to establish it is accurate, and @onlytherain you are right it is for the LA to demonstrate why it is not. So far they haven't for me.