Low expectations from professionals

[Torvy]

I'm on a bit of a high at the moment because for about 3 weeks life hasn't been as hard as it usually is, so I'm sure half term will slap me back down to reality at some point but I wanted to ask what I think is quite a niche question.

Is anyone else sick of professionals assuming kids who struggle can't or won't manage some basic childhood experiences, or that we should just let them not participate or make too much of an effort with them even if they find it hard?

I'll preface this with the fact I know everybody's child is different, and has tolerances and abilities. I also agree some children simply cannot do many things, and I know my kids have certain things they cannot even entertain at the moment. This is not about those things or those kids. I get it completely.

But I have spoken with so many therapists and been on so many courses where I feel that we have kind of gone through the looking glass and suddenly it's like the children and parents are portrayed as helpless victims of circumstances and biology, doomed to an eternity of small lives and small worlds.

For example, my eldest kid loves his birthday. I want to say I have no idea why, because it is essentially the time of year when alllllll the traumatic stuff happened, but I think he just really likes parties and presents and the attention on him. He was desperate for the whole class to sing happy birthday to him. of course, he gets a bit weird and shy about it, and I've spoken at length about his reaction to other people's parties (famously drop kicking his brother's cake across the room) but his own birthday? Loves it.

That's partly because we have worked hard at making his parties successful. We do social stories, have them in particular environments (small soft plays we can entirely book out, outside on a farm), we invite the whole nursery class and siblings (particularly older boisterous ones who match his vibe) so that there is a healthy number of people there, we have zero expectations of him to eat, we have the cake relatively soon into the party, we provide inflatable swords so that all the other kids are hyped up and running around so he doesn't stand out, we go to the park the morning before to run off energy, we deploy grandparents into specific roles so that we can set up without him there and they are assigned body guard duty (for the other kids!) and so on and so forth. It isn't easy for us. Our manipulation of the environment and events are as subtle as we can make them, and they take work, but they are successful. He is successful. And with every party he has, we build on the notion that he is successful at his parties. And then we can build on that for other things.

My issue is that when we speak to therapists or course facilitators, they have that deep inhale of breath and go "are you sure it is a good idea?", and I feel like screaming. He loves his birthday party because we do all the things and because he is 5 and because his character and personality means that he loves it. Why should he miss out on a chance to be socially successful? God only knows there are plenty of other times when he isn't. In my head, it's a small social and financial investment for us to make in terms of us getting to know other parents, him being able to speak about it at school, having a relatively typical experience when so much of his life hasn't been typical. Why wouldn't I want to give my child that? And, at the moment, we have the resources available to give him that because we are lucky and privileged. And he can cope with it. There is a cost- sleep has been tricky and he has mainly eaten icing and nachos for the last few days, but he did it. And I feel like I want him to have that if we can. He does find some elements hard, but at the moment, with work and support, he can still do his own birthday successfully. Why shouldn't he get at least that?

It's the same with holidays. Sure, we often have holidays in caravans, eat mainly cereal and travel by ferry because it means we can take the stuff we need. But holidays themselves aren't intrinsically too difficult or distressing for them that it isn't balanced by the excitement of the new experiences. But when I mention that we do take them away, I feel like there is always an element of judgement, like I don't know what I'm doing, or that I'm somehow not knowledgeable about the deeper impact it has on them. But I disagree. Whilst they might end up a bit dysregulated on the odd occasion, it's no more than they would be if they were cooped up in the house. They enjoy going to different places and seeing new stuff. They want to explore. They also need their usual stuff. We work hard to put plans and contingency plans in place, down to the fine details, and because of that, we have worked out how we can give our kids as much of a positive experience as we can. Obviously, it's always a balance. Occasionally we don't get it right. Sometimes it's rubbish and we are sat in a caravan in the pissing rain with angsty kids. But isn't that life sometimes? Sometimes the supermarche in Lille doesn't have the double chocolate cereal, and you end up with a meltdown in the middle of the fridge aisle surrounded by Brie, rather than in the middle of Sainsbury's surrounded by cheddar, but at least the brie is better quality and the wine is much cheaper.

And the impact it has on us as the adults is so often underrated. Ok, so it might just be a caravan in Lille, but hey, we got a holiday and can post dumb things to our insta about wine and cheese because we are in France. Sure, it's just a kids birthday party at the soft play but I got to bake a cute cake and see my kid play with friends and not just the blocks in the therapist waiting room. And those things are important too. I need to see my kids winning at life sometimes. I want to take every opportunity I can to be a typical mum, not just the mum who has to drag her kids out of the school gates as they have meltdown after meltdown.

I just feel like sometimes the professionals we work with find it so easy to say oh it's hard, so you shouldn't do it, rather than oh it's hard, let's find some ways that you can do it with support or strategies. I feel like I'm simultaneously having to justify that I want some facsimile of a normal life with holidays and parties for my kids because don't you know They Are Adopted And They Find It Hard. Well, I'm fat and I find climbing a mountain hard. It doesn't mean that I shouldn't do it every now and again, if only to remind myself that the view is nice. I can stop and have a cup of tea and a breather on the way, and I might need some sturdier than average hiking boots, but I can still bloody do it. And so can my kids, you know?

I'm also aware that things can change, both for the better and for the worse. In 2 years time they might not be able to have parties because they've decked a few too many kids for anyone to want to come. Why not fill up our cup now? We've all missed out on enough, aren't I entitled to greedily soak in as many of their childhood experiences as I possibly can, give them as many moments of happiness and joy as possible, knowing as I do that it might not come around next year? Why is that not a valuable enough reason too?

I've been on the rollercoaster so often that I know the bad times come round often enough, so I want to make the good times count as well. I want professionals to give me good advice, but also not to keep telling me that tedious stability and boring routine are the price my vibrant, beautiful boys should pay for being adopted rather than enabling moments of fairly average childhood brightness. There are so many things my boys can't do that other people take for granted, but whilst they can do some of the things with support, I want them to have them, because I know they might not get to do them in the future. They can't help that, but I can help them now, and I so desperately want to, and I want the people who are helping us to value those things too, and see that the kid deserves a bloody birthday party if he wants it and it isn't the end of the world. It's worth a few nights of (even more) disrupted sleep because he had an absolute blast and didn't completely tank it. I sort of resent that I'm made to feel worried that indulging them where I can in normal childish stuff will somehow damage them irreparably because of their trauma. And I resent that they think I would overplay my hand when we think so deeply about every element and what they can and can't handle. Sleepovers without us? Nope. Going out for a meal? Nope. A different route to school? Nope. Treats on a day that isn't Friday? Nope. We play by the rules for pretty much everything because we have to, because they can't cope. But that means we can save it for stuff like parties and holidays.

Does any of this make sense? I've been riding high on a sugar rush from the fondant icing overload, so I'm possibly also on a sugar comedown. I feel all mixed up, sad my little boy is growing up, excited for all the possibilities he can have and angry that other people are so happy to limit him. If we had followed professionals advice, he would have had no party, or a tiny one with just his grandparents, with brown bread sandwiches and a nice banana for afters. Instead, he got all of his dumb little 5 year old wishes granted, from having a pinata to a ridiculously garish coloured cake whilst running round a soft play. I don't think that makes me a bad person.... does it?

Mine are 25 and 26 now. Looking back I think we saw some professionals who were less than helpful. They thought they knew it all, had all the answers, tried always to one-up me to show off their expertise so if I had said sth positive about a holiday they would have to disagree just for the sake of being the "expert".

None of them know our children like we do.

My two always loved parties and Christmas too. Holidays also. I know that goes against the usual wisdom but if it works for you...

First social worker we met who did our initial visit told us that adopted kids don't achieve academically and would never go to university. Not sure why she told us that as neither of us had even mentioned it ( why would we)!

I think the 'professionals' find it hard to see the individual child

I used to write a blog at work for National Adoption Week, in one I wrote I expected nothing and hoped for everything.
When my son arrived aged 8 he was in special school, years behind. I admit I struggled to see the future but I had a sense that given the opportunity he could do well.
With the help of some amazing teachers, scout leaders, family and friends, I gave him every opportunity I could, picked him up, brushed him off and sent him off on his way again, some years he made dramatic progress, others were slower, but always moving forward.
I wish that disability social worker could see him now at 20, driving, owning a car, working and in his second year at university.

I think it's very hard for professionals to see individual children and individual parents. In my experience so many parents will present saying their child can't do x, y or z - sometimes they really can't and sometimes parents don't have the knowledge, capacity or finances to manage things in a way their child can cope with.

We do holidays and weekends away. I chose places that serve food my DS can eat, in an environment my DD can cope with. So no big all inclusive type hotels with buffet style meals, small hotels with a restaurant on site, an agreement that we may just need a day on screens in the hotel room. They both love the sunshine and an ever available pool to play in. We get them through the airport as quickly as possible, use quiet rooms etc. Weekends away are loosely structured, with activities we can abandon if need be.

Accepted wisdom would be it's too stressful for them to go on holiday but, trickly though it may be, they love new experiences.

School i find hugely stressful, my DD is in specialist provision and they have absolutely no academic ambition for her at all. It feels like they are keeping her occupied and if she learns something in the process all well and good.

We need to hold hope for our kids, and give them as many experiences as possible - help them find what makes their soul sing. My two have travelled widely, camped at music festivals, gone scuba diving, climbed mountains, tried parkour, had amazing birthdays, been to all kinds of theatre, all supported and scaffolded by me and their dad.

It's important as a parent too to have those family experiences, yes there's a cost:benefit to be done. Is the theatre trip worth the sleepless night that will follow (yes), is the birthday party worth the disruptive behaviour needed to redress the balance in my childs mind (also yes). Is the holiday worth the meticulous planning on my part (hell yes).

I really resonated with what you described.

I think professionals feel more safe in risking harm through not doing things, than harm by doing things. I'm not really sure why, but I do find professionals can get stuck in that way of thinking. I'm still learning about how and when to push back, sometimes I just don't bother other, times I painstakingly describe the issue and my thoughts etc. Other times I'm just blunt and clear that I don't feel my children's experience is being heard or understood.

I've also experienced an acceptance that our children will suffer, so there is less impetus to help. My children sound the exact opposite of yours! My 5yo doesn't know how to play and finds any attempt to engage with her hugely frightening and stressful. If the Internet glitches and the TV goes off she will literally sit staring at the blank screen until someone fixes it. The only things she seems seems relaxed doing are eating or when I out her to bed. I thinks it's heartbreaking, but many professionals don't seem bothered, they think it's acceptable for her to suffer like that, almost as if she's destined to.

Yes, this drives me mad.

It works another way, too, in that professionals accept things for our children, or LAC/at risk children generally, that they'd never accept for their own children- in terms of foster care, school etc. They have such low standards and expectations for our children that they'd never have for their own children.

I have mentioned before that the senior social worker who placed our younger two children with us told us "you will need to accept T has a learning disablity and may never catch up" this is the same T who has a degree has represented Eng in a disability sport in 6 different countries ,has run marathons ,climbed Killimanjaro ,works in middle management for a charity, is happily married,and mamaged to buy a flat in London! The professionals who saw him regularly til he was 6 had developed a narrative about him because he was born addicted. They had failed to pick up his sensory disability. And wanted us to have what they felt were 'realistic" expectations for him.

I agree especially with this. It's very hard to argue this without being framed as the pushy or unrealistic parent.

Thank you all for your responses. @Beetham and @Awumminnscotland you have hit the nail on the head there with them just accepting that a certain level of suffering is acceptable for our kids. I find it infuriating, and I had kind of lost my way from my usual mantra of asking professionals to write down on their notes that they were content that the situation they were permitting and allowing was acceptable or recommended.

Deep down, I don't want to be a pushy parent because it's not my nature, but my desire for my kid to have access to as much as he can goes deeper than that.

I have the same thoughts and feelings as @Jellycatspyjamas in terms of education too. My two are in mainstream at the moment, but when I did a visit there, the level of their behaviour was sodding outrageous, and the teachers were just.... Allowing it? And I was just like... You know they can behave, right? They have the capacity at least 80 % of the time to not be absolute little whirlwinds, and at home we have very clear boundaries about the important stuff like not throwing stuff around the room for absolute shits and giggles like they are now? And they were just like... Oh. So basically because they have SEND, they've just been sort of allowed to get away with murder, but not in a way that is accomodating, more of a 'oh that's just way they are, we couldn't possibly expect them to sit on a carpet for 5 minutes' when they definitely can. And I was like... But this is how they get a bad rep, because their needs is not one where they need to be withdrawn, or removed all the time, but one where key triggers mean that certain situations need to be managed. That's where the nuance comes in, and where I think the hard thinking isn't done. It's like a blanket approach of oh, all kids with SEND need xyz. And I feel like saying well the s stands for special, as in unique, beyond, above. So think about it!

Schools are often not well geared up for traumatised children. Some schools are better than others. I moved my younger daughter to a different school in year 3 because I knew she wouldn't cope with their policies. And actually she needed a therapeutic environment. She needed a lot more adjustments than a mainstream primary could reasonably provide.

You said yours are currently in mainstream. Are you going to move them?

In the adoption community, there’s a tendency, even among professionals, to treat adopted children as perpetual victims and to attribute all behaviors to trauma. I strongly disagree with this approach. Observing friends with biological children over the years has shown me that parenting is challenging for everyone—tantrums, misbehavior, and growing pains are common to all children, adopted or biological.

With my three adopted children, I’ve chosen to raise them as I would biological children. They know they’re adopted, and we’re open about it, but I don’t let adoption define their whole existence. I don’t treat them as permanently traumatised or incapable of overcoming challenges with our support. Every person faces difficulties in life, and it’s all about learning to handle them positively—lots of love and care make a big difference.

I believe this approach has been crucial in helping our three children grow into healthy, resilient, and confident individuals who manage their trauma constructively. Compared to other children in our circle, they’re some of the most balanced and we’re very proud of them of course.

I think it depends on how affected they are by their early life experiences. My younger daughter is remarkably resilient and has a job, a boyfriend who she has moved in with. But her early life experiences continue to dominate areas of her life, such as around food. Her boyfriend's family are becoming more and more vocal about her eating habits (hugely restricted diet) and this is not helping.

🤣 all the other adopters are parenting wrong, and that's why their kids struggle 🤣

I think you should probably adopt more kids, if your method is the answer.

Or maybe... Lots of adopted kids struggle, and you've been fortunate your more traditional parenting has worked. However many adopters find their children need a different approach. Different children need different things.

@rabblenotrebel your response is quite dismissive and honestly don’t see what’s funny about it. I also don’t understand why my post would be taken as an attack on your own adoption style. This victim mentality is exactly what I was trying to get at.

I was simply sharing what has worked for my family, not suggesting that others are ‘parenting wrong’ or that one method is universally effective, so please do not misconstruct my words. I fully recognise that different children have different needs, and that many adoptive families face unique challenges that require varied approaches.

My point was to offer a perspective that’s often less emphasised in the adoption community. In our experience, focusing on resilience and treating adoption as one part of my children’s identities—without letting it overshadow everything else—has helped them thrive. I believe there’s value in sharing what’s worked for us, just as I appreciate hearing what’s worked for others.

I have had to deal with epilepsy, moderate learning disability, foetal alcohol syndrome, ehlos dahnos syndrome, autism, adhd, clinical speech and language disorder, executive functioning disorder, severe dyslexia, dysplasia, dyscalculia, genetic deletion......both my children went to special needs schools and both get PIP. Their adoption status and early trauma is not that relevant in the scene of things tbh. They come from from families with profound difficulties, which explain why they could not look after the children. It is quite hard to be resilient in the face of all that. But my younger daughter in particular is doing ok; however she will always need support.

@Arran2024 Thanks for sharing your experience—it really highlights the complexities and resilience required in managing multiple complex needs. It’s clear that your situation is extremely complex and wouldn’t align with traditional approaches. It’s good to hear your younger daughter is doing well, even with ongoing support needs. I appreciate the insight; all children are different, and different strategies work for different families.

God yeah.

NHS professionals too.

Luckily anyone who actually knows my AC like nursery or family or friends think they are wonderful and capable of anything

Totally agree with this from what I've seen

And I don't care if I'm seen as a pushy parent. I've got ADHD so I struggle to back down from an injustice or a fight, and I see that as one of my main roles as an adoptive parent, to fight for AC and get them the chances that BP probably couldn't.

I've no doubt I will burn out at some point, there seem lots of hurdles ahead of us, but I'm hoping AC will make it over most of them

My brilliant daughter’s teacher asked her why she was applying for ‘levelling up’ to reduce her University grades. He couldn’t believe it when she told him she had been in care for seven years. ( in a good way). She just doesn’t fit what we were told to expect.
But, I am a firm believer that if you believe low, you aim low and if you believe high, you aim high. Our expectations were high.
We now have a daughter who has passed 9 GCSE’s, 4’ AS’s, is taking 3 A’levels, applying for University and is Head Student.

But, I am a firm believer that if you believe low, you aim low and if you believe high, you aim high. Our expectations were high.
We now have a daughter who has passed 9 GCSE’s, 4’ AS’s, is taking 3 A’levels, applying for University and is Head Student.

Im glad your DD is doing so well but no amount of “believing high” will change the very real impact of long term complex trauma for my DD. It impacts her physically, psychologically, cognitively and emotionally.

I’m sure you don’t mean it this way but high beliefs and expectations alone aren’t enough for many traumatised children. They also need carefully coordinated health care, supportive, flexible education provision, specialist therapies and much more growing time than their peers just to function day by day. High beliefs in themselves are great, but they won’t change the impact of alcohol use during pregnancy and the resultant developmental impact on my daughter.

I’m glad your child is doing well but many parents here are doing their best against the odds.

Thank you @Jellycatspyjamas

I believed high for DC... The hand they've been dealt genetically and pre-natally can't be undone by "believing high", it needs specialist help, and lots of it. And what is "high" any way?

Totally agree. One of mine is a room leader in s nursery (she is 24) and for her that is a massive achievement. She and her boyfriend have moved in together and she is doing really well. She attended a special needs school. I took things at her level. "Aiming high" was not right for her. Being realistic was more important.