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Adoption

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

Adopting a sibling… currently doing IVF

20 replies

fingerscrossed2021x · 06/08/2024 20:50

Hi

i’m just wondering if anyone can offer experience/advice on our current situation. We adopted our daughter in 2021 and have since been enjoying her and planning how we would expand our family in the future whilst being open to all options.

We have decided to move forward with IVF and we are currently in the midst of medication and will find out if I’m pregnant in approximately 3 weeks.

yesterday we received a phone call from
the social worker to say our child’s birth parents are having another baby and are due imminently (concealed pregnancy). If we would have known this situation was to come we would never have started IVF and we would have done all that we could to keep the siblings together if we are to be considered… they have to rule out family etc first but likely the plan will be adoption.

social services said if I’m pregnant it may not rule us out. I’m just wondering if anyone has heard of anyone adopting a sibling whilst being pregnant themselves?

it may be that I am not pregnant but I’m just thinking “worse case scenario” now. Any advice would be appreciated.

thank you!

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 07/08/2024 09:07

They wouldn’t usually place a child with someone who is pregnant but it can happen. In these circumstances I imagine they’d want to try and keep siblings together and may do that regardless of pregnancy. You’d need to think about the potential dynamics of having two adopted siblings and a birth child - there are lots of potentials there to explore. I’d start thinking about how you’d cope with 3 children, two of whom are babies and how you’d meet all their respective needs for care and time, how you’d stop your oldest from feeling displaced, how you’d cope if either adopted child turned on your birth child or vice versa.

My concern would be you having a very precious IVF child alongside two traumatised children who will need a different type of care and how you’d balance all of those needs.

fingerscrossed2021x · 07/08/2024 12:57

Jellycatspyjamas · 07/08/2024 09:07

They wouldn’t usually place a child with someone who is pregnant but it can happen. In these circumstances I imagine they’d want to try and keep siblings together and may do that regardless of pregnancy. You’d need to think about the potential dynamics of having two adopted siblings and a birth child - there are lots of potentials there to explore. I’d start thinking about how you’d cope with 3 children, two of whom are babies and how you’d meet all their respective needs for care and time, how you’d stop your oldest from feeling displaced, how you’d cope if either adopted child turned on your birth child or vice versa.

My concern would be you having a very precious IVF child alongside two traumatised children who will need a different type of care and how you’d balance all of those needs.

Thanks so much for replying.

Those are all really helpful thinking points.

I was just wondering if anybody had any real life experience of this happening just so we can even know whether it could be an option for us.

Sadly, I'm actually half hoping now that I won't be pregnant if it meant we couldn't be considered for the sibling.

OP posts:
Mama1980 · 07/08/2024 19:12

I was not in an identical situation but I had a baby under a year old when my second adopted dd was born. I won't be much help with the logistics as my situation was fairly unique whereby the bm (bm to my dd1) requested I adopt her dd2.
When I was being assessed/talked to about this with SS the main thing they wanted to know was how would I deal with a young birth son and a adopted dd who, whilst she was placed in my care the day she was born, was sick and traumatised.
They needed obviously to be sure I wouldn't 'prioritise' my birth son. I had to explore what would happen if my adopted child hurt a birth one etc.
Also You cannot predict hormones or replicate the psychological impact of biologically carrying a child so I had to explore all of this and have a plan in place to deal with potential issues if they were to arise.
There were benefits, they are close in age, adore each other. I was also able (with SS support and medical guidance) to breast feed both for a time which was very helpful for my daughter. She was almost instantly was able to associate me with food and comfort.
The logistics were also easy, having two isn't really that different to having one young baby I found and my other two were older so needed me less. It's the emotional issues that SS will be most concerned about.

Jellycatspyjamas · 07/08/2024 19:31

I was just wondering if anybody had any real life experience of this happening just so we can even know whether it could be an option for us.

I don’t have that experience as an adoptive parent but have assessed and placed children in similar situations as a social worker.

Pieandchips999 · 07/08/2024 22:27

Have you thought about doing a freeze all cycle? As in taking the process through but freezing any resulting embryos for later implantation and focusing on the potential adoption meantime? This means you wouldn't be trying to go through the adoption process while managing a pregnancy. It would also show your commitment to the baby

fingerscrossed2021x · 08/08/2024 08:39

That’s good to know, thank you.

OP posts:
fingerscrossed2021x · 08/08/2024 08:45

Pieandchips999 · 07/08/2024 22:27

Have you thought about doing a freeze all cycle? As in taking the process through but freezing any resulting embryos for later implantation and focusing on the potential adoption meantime? This means you wouldn't be trying to go through the adoption process while managing a pregnancy. It would also show your commitment to the baby

We have thought about it. I have asked the social worker earlier in the week if she thinks that would also be the best course of action but have not yet heard back yet. SS only found out BM was pregnant 2 days ago and let us know the same day so they had limited info and hadn’t ruled family etc out either. It’s just taken us so long to get to this point with that I feel hesitant to put it off further if it turns out family members come forward or the plan isn’t adoption. We really don’t have the time to be thinking about it though as embryo transfer is scheduled for Tuesday or Thursday next week. Feel very stressed at the moment. Just cannot believe the timing of it all.

can anyone recall if family are ruled out after birth or do they start the process beforehand?

OP posts:
fingerscrossed2021x · 08/08/2024 08:47

Mama1980 · 07/08/2024 19:12

I was not in an identical situation but I had a baby under a year old when my second adopted dd was born. I won't be much help with the logistics as my situation was fairly unique whereby the bm (bm to my dd1) requested I adopt her dd2.
When I was being assessed/talked to about this with SS the main thing they wanted to know was how would I deal with a young birth son and a adopted dd who, whilst she was placed in my care the day she was born, was sick and traumatised.
They needed obviously to be sure I wouldn't 'prioritise' my birth son. I had to explore what would happen if my adopted child hurt a birth one etc.
Also You cannot predict hormones or replicate the psychological impact of biologically carrying a child so I had to explore all of this and have a plan in place to deal with potential issues if they were to arise.
There were benefits, they are close in age, adore each other. I was also able (with SS support and medical guidance) to breast feed both for a time which was very helpful for my daughter. She was almost instantly was able to associate me with food and comfort.
The logistics were also easy, having two isn't really that different to having one young baby I found and my other two were older so needed me less. It's the emotional issues that SS will be most concerned about.

That’s so helpful, thank you very much.

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 08/08/2024 09:21

can anyone recall if family are ruled out after birth or do they start the process beforehand?

They’ll start the assessment process while the pregnancy is known but usually won’t make a final decision until the baby is born because you can’t take a care order out on an unborn child. They will have a good idea of how likely it is that a family placement will be found and whether fostering is the likely outcome even initially.

Italiangreyhound · 08/08/2024 11:05

I have not been in your position so my thoughts may be of no help. However, I do have a birth child and an adopted child and have extensive experience of fertility treatment.

Personally, I would not interrupt a fertility cycle. I'd want to leave it in place and see what happens.

However, I would make it clear you are very keen to adopt the new siblings regardless of the result of the pregnancy. The babies would be 9 months apart and that mine months would give you a great bonding time with the sibling baby.

Agree with others think through every scenario of how you will care for your existing child, possible new adopted child and possible new birth child.

Good luck. And please let us know how it all works out. Good on you for being open to all this.

Italiangreyhound · 08/08/2024 11:05

Sorry, sibling singular in the first instance.

fingerscrossed2021x · 08/08/2024 12:09

Thanks for all the replies.

@Italiangreyhound thank you for a different perspective.

We are really unsure what to do and feeling very stressed about it which is probably not great during an IVF cycle. We know that if the scenario happens that I am pregnant and we are considered for sibling, we could meet the needs of all three children, I just worry we wouldn't be able to convey this to a panel.

Our ideal scenario is that we go ahead with the embryo transfer next week and see what the outcome of this is. We would be hopeful to adopt the sibling, pregnant or not. We are just so worried that if we go ahead and are pregnant, this would then be seen as we haven't put the needs of the sibling first and the panel wouldn't agree that it is the right placement for sibling. However, we may not be pregnant and this wouldn't be a concern.

If we do a freeze all cycle, we may then find out that a family member has come forward or the plan isn't adoption for sibling (unlikely) and we have wasted X amount of money on IVF and have to pay more for a frozen transfer and have lost the time taken.

Also, if we would have received this phone call next week then the embryo transfer would have already happened and it would have been out of our hands. I just feel as we have the information and could "stop" the IVF cycle that we could be penalised in the future should we go ahead now knowing all of the information.

The social worker said that they will have more information in a month-6 weeks and she said she understands the difficulties we now face but the situation would be a lot more complex if I were to be pregnant and they would never assess a family who were under typical circumstances however as we have sibling A with us currently they would "seek to keep siblings together they would discuss it however they couldn't say it would be straightforward".

We are really unsure how to move forward but any further advice at all from anyone would be hugely appreciated. Even advice of what you would do in our situation as we have to make this decision ASAP.

OP posts:
Pieandchips999 · 08/08/2024 14:15

I would do a freeze all it it were me however it also doesn't sound like what you want to do. And others have totally different opinions. It's got to be a personal decision and it's very close to the wire. I nearly had to have a freeze all cycle with previous IVF due to medical complications and it was something they were able to consider diverting last minute if you are considering practically . I was however super stressed at the time and I wonder if this could have affected the outcome. Is there any chance of an urgent discussion with the clinic counsellor? I'm not sure how realistic this is with their diaries. It's definitely very difficult timing.

The IVF I did didn't work out (previous partner some years ago) and my wife she I are now all in in adoption. So that would probably influence my views.

I'm also a social worker. The one thing I would completely exclude as an option is having both in this situation. You'd be managing two adopted children's needs with young babies close together and the birth child in the middle. However again we don't want three children we are planning on a sibling group of two and then that will be our family complete. Again that sounds different from your thoughts.

If you do go ahead with the fresh cycle which it sounds is clearly what you want to do I would completely forget the call from the social worker as much as you can for now and focus on treatment. You won't know more for a while and will have an outcome to advise the social worker of. It should time in ok. However children's social workers aren't the people who would agree to support and assess you as adopters so you would need to convince the agency why to exclude a 6 months wait after treatment.

I wish you luck there aren't any easy answers

Italiangreyhound · 08/08/2024 14:22

Stopping and freezing mid cycle would not be the usual medical route and also if you ended up with frozen embryos you would then be faced with a dilemma of what to do? 'Abandon' the embryo, for want of a better word, or pursue the treatment, but when? When the new baby is one of two or three?

If you are just worried about articulating how you will care, think I'd all the possible questions and be ready to answer them.

Just my opinion.

Jellycatspyjamas · 08/08/2024 18:17

We know that if the scenario happens that I am pregnant and we are considered for sibling, we could meet the needs of all three children, I just worry we wouldn't be able to convey this to a panel.

You need to be able to articulate how you know you could meet all three children’s needs. Consider if you had a difficult pregnancy how you would meet the needs of your existing child, new baby and manage your pregnancy. What about childcare when you’re due to give birth, what if the baby had complications? The more avenues you have been able to foresee and plan for the better.

Also be careful that you’re not finding ways to make something work that really wasn’t on the horizon to begin with. The challenges of having a birth child after adoption are pretty complex which is why we ask prospective adopters to be clear they have closed the door on biological children, adding another baby into that mix won’t make it less difficult. Saying you can meet their needs is easy, you don’t know how their needs will change over time and how you’re going to be throughout pregnancy and beyond. I’d want some very considered, realistic reflections on what you think the needs might be and your plans to meet then. Just saying “I know I could” would be a huge red flag without substantial thinking to back it up.

Its not straightforward for very good reasons, bearing in mind just because you could doesn’t mean it’s the best option for all three potential children involved.

Torvy · 09/08/2024 06:31

There is a lot to thinkabout, and only you can essentially gamble with the chances.

I would say move forward with the embryo implant. There is very chance it might work out, and that is what you had planned and wanted and hoped for. I would feel like I deserved to let myself do that if I had planned that opportunity for myself, and I know that were I to interrupt that to do something with potentially less successful outcomes like a freeze all, and it wasnt successful, I would find it hard to not be incredibly angry and resentful were things not to work out with the sibling placement.

I would shift my thinking to believe that it is the social workers who make the decision about whether your family is right or not. There are many worse things for an adopted child than having a sibling who is 9 months younger than you, and although in adoption terms it is not really recommended, sometimes these things can work out if the effort is put in to how sustainable it can be. However, I would be of the opinion that it is not really your job to decide if the gold is placed with you if your heart is open to it, rather that it is the social workers choice as to whether they want it. You can know you offered a placement and were committed to making it work.

I say this in the nicest way, but society is set up for a family of four, and to move to a family of five (I'm the eldest of 3) meant things like we had to get extra hotel rooms, were always crowded in the middle seats of the cars, had to buy two packets of 4 bread rolls, always be outnumbered etc. I felt some resentment because I was frustrated that we couldn't just be 'normal'. Finding babysitters for the three of us was hard, holidays are set up for 4 people sharing, all that stuff was difficult for my parents, and because my two you gest siblings were close in age, my mum's maternity leave ran quite close together so her career didn't really survive that and having two young children as the childcare costs for both to be cared for were extortionate, and by the time it was financially viable to go back to work, she had been out of the market for several years.

I mention this not because I think it is the wrong thing to do, but because in many ways, if you do turn out to have a family of 5, your narrative can very much focus on how lucky you were, how many stars must have aligned to make it happen. What a happy set of chances it will be if your family is created because the BM pregnancy goes well AND their social worker places the child with you AND your pregnancy goes well.

I might be worried that if AC was placed and then your own pregnancy didn't work out that the grief might become entangled with the early childhood of your AC. You couldn't know that in advance, and even were that to be the case, it isn't the end of the world but in those early days the bond is so fragile that I would worry about it being a trigger for post adoption depression, and in some ways thinking that the stress of the adoption process contributed.

There's loads to consider if you do have them, and your mind is possibly spinning, but should it go ahead, the below is what I would be considering:

Having two children very close in age is both a blessing and a pain in the arse. You need to think about loads of stuff, not just when they are babies but further on in life too. For example, as long as BM doesn't go over term, that child will be summer born (very summer born), so they won't be in the same.school year, but unless you want them to be in the same class (which I wouldn't recommend), you won't have the option for deferral, even if your AC has any delays.

Financially you are also on the hook for lots of things close together - university fees, school trips, but you can also do plenty of hand me downs, although if AC is in any way delayed that might be trickier. Also, my eldest hates giving stuff to his sibling, and the rate they grow I can't even hide it until he forgets!

There is also the gender thing, and I say this as someone who didn't give a hoot about gender before I adopted. We have two boys close in age and it's actually more unusual than I thought and draws a lot more comment. I may be biased, but they seem to spend half their lives wrestling, jumping climbing and shoving, winding each other up and being generally socially unacceptable, and whilst in some ways I can just roll my eyes and brush it off to onlookers as #boymom! In other ways I think it would be different if we had one of each as their interests and the reactions of others might be different. Both of my boys are very different kids, and we do encourage them to be, but people do bracket them together. This has done wonders for their sibling relationship, but equally means that they expect the boys to react the same and they really don't, which can make it tricky to get the right support in place for them or avoid comparisons between them, which may be tricky for an AC and BC in the long run. (And before anybody comes for me about boys and stereotypes and gender norms and it not mattering, before I had my two terrors I would have said the same thing. Turns out life's favourite thing to do is give two parents who were dedicated to breaking gender norms two boys who love dinosaurs, mud, guns and swords so much that they can name different 16th century cannons at 4 years old and insist I read every pissing noticeboard at the transport museum to them). However much I hate to say it, other people's comments will be amplified and more prominent if you have a less usual family make up, and I can imagine that having 2 children so close in age would be a magnet for comments and questions, probably just as you are trying to get them all in the car at the supermarket and they are all kicking off.

Anyway. I would query whether the gender make up change anything, or the dynamics when combined with age? I would be aware that your current AD would feel like the outsider from "the babies", and each combination may mean parenting those combinations differently. If the two adopted children were girls, would you expect them to bond differently? How might that leave your son feeling? If the two youngest were both boys would that leave you AD feeling left out? Would 3 girls have a lot of competition or even possibly make them feel that they had to be "the sporty one" or whatever to stand out? Etc etc

All things considered, and knowing nothing about your situation beyond what you have told us, I would be inclined to go for the "shoot 'em all let God decide" approach. There are too many variables in both options for either to be considered a sure enough bet to exclude the other, and as long as you are genuinely prepared to be a larger family should all the moving parts come together, a very interesting story to tell in the future.

Torvy · 09/08/2024 06:44

(sorry, just to add a clarifying comment, I obviously don't think that adoption is just a "interesting story to tell" but more that everything could be told in such a lovely way to them were the cards to fall that way.)

fingerscrossed2021x · 09/08/2024 21:28

Torvy · 09/08/2024 06:44

(sorry, just to add a clarifying comment, I obviously don't think that adoption is just a "interesting story to tell" but more that everything could be told in such a lovely way to them were the cards to fall that way.)

I can't thank you enough for taking time out of your day to write such a lovely, insightful, detailed response!

OP posts:
fingerscrossed2021x · 09/08/2024 21:30

Update for those that asked, we have decided to freeze the embryos next week after the egg collection tomorrow.

We've based our decision on the fact that doing it this way, we will have lost time and money however if we risked it the other way, we may lose the opportunity for those siblings to grow up together.

It still may not go to plan but at least doing it this way we can say we really did give it our all.

Thanks again for such thoughtful responses. We really appreciate it.

OP posts:
Pieandchips999 · 10/08/2024 10:16

I hope everything goes well with your egg collection today and it's good to hear you came to a decision you feel is right for you. I didn't think that was what you were going to decide but it sounds like hearing all he different options helped you

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