Not sure this is going to work out.....

[mummyBop]

After a good start, things have got steadily worse over the past two weeks and I'm not sure this placement is going to work out.

I am sick of being used as a punchbag, of getting "no" to every request and the constant demands of attention. We have had some quite extreme behaviour and I am sure I will hit one of them soon if this continues.

I spoke to my social worker last night and she thinks we are doing all the right things, but I can't cope. We're half way through the 2 week April holidays and I am dreading this next week.

So how do you deal with challenging behaviour from three at once; what sanctions actually have an effect; how do you assert your authority, wothout rejecting them. At the moment I have three children running rings round me and I'm sinking in the middle. We are trying to praise the good stuff (actually even the vaguely good stuff), we have sanctions of early bedtimes, timeout in rooms, loss of activities of confisaction of toys, but particularly for the eldest none of these seem to have any effect - she just says "I don't care". When I try to discipline one, the others react agaisnt it and alone its virtually impossible (even with two its hard).

I feel so trapped and the only way out I can see is to send them back - I can't do this anymore. I feel like a failure and a terrible pretend mum.

mBop

I agree with maryz.

Also, mummybop - this is how it is with young children. Some days you want them to be anywhere other than in the same house as you, other days you think they are beautiful gifts. You just have to stay centred and try not to let things get too desperate. Looking after yourself is very important. Eating properly, sleeping when you can, accepting any help that is offered, being very realistic about what you can manage in one day and realising that all the time they're changing and growing and that every day will bring a new challenge and, maybe, if you're lucky, a new reward.

Hi Bop recognise you from the other "D" place , I'm H*e over there. You're doing a magnificent job, it seems hard but they possibly just need more time. It hasn't been that long that they've been with you. I know when dd1 was born after the first 2 weeks I told DH I'd had enough and I wanted a refund. hugs

sorry that should have read Ha*ie

Hi Mummybop,
Have you read the two books by Caroline Archer 'parenting the child who hurts' - tiddlers and toddlers and tykes and teens?
They are focussed on adoptive families and deal with a lot of issues which might be relevant to your children such as attachment issues and loss.

Apart from that, I would say keep in touch with your social worker and ask them to do some digging on your behalf for post adoption support in your area and don't be too hard on yourself.

Good luck

Thanks everyone - things have got a lot better since my last post and we have had great support from our social work team.

I am looking forward to them going back to school on Monnday as I think part of the problem is that I have really missed my space - even just two hours a day whilst the little one is at nursery makes a huge difference. Things were going really well before the holidays.

Our adoption petition has also been filed today although it will take 6-12 months to before it is finalised. The kids keep asking when they wil be adopted and want it to be asap!

We are trying to keep a record of the golden moments such as hugs and fun times and hopefully these memories will help us through the tougher times. They are rtesting us bit this is normal and the fact it is so soon is indicative of just how settled they really are (having known us for 18 months previusly)!

Anyway, thanks for all your advice and support - I'm using what I can and trying to find the right way forward for us.

Bop

Glad things are better, mummybop. I think it is only natural that you should want a bit of time to reflect, sort yourself out, after this enormous life change.

so lovely that the children want the adoption to be ASAP

mummybop - do you mean that you have already submitted your adoption petition to the court? i thought the children had to live with you for at least 13 weeks? And has your Sw already done her S22 report??? i don't really see how thats possible within a few weeks of placement....I'm confused

Yes we've submitted our petition - we had to as the timescales are really tight as their mother did not give written consent (21 days from the advice Children's Hearing).

The next step is the s23 report which can't be until 10 weeks after placement (its already nearly 7 weeks!). Then a curator will be appointed and do his/her investigation before a court date is set

It will probably take 6-12 months for it to be finalised but we had to petition by last Monday this week or the whole freeing process would have had to start again, giving notice to mum etc.

Not sure if its different because we're in Scotland? I also think the whole process is different if its a UK adoption following the children being looked after.

Bop

I breathed a huge sigh of relief as they went back to school - at least when they do play up its only for a few hours!! I never really understood why parents found school holidays so tricky, but now I do.

Had a tricky evening as I had my friends two kids as well and they got back late, so the whole veing routinne went to pot and bedtime was tricky, but hey they are all asleep now!

Bop

MummyBop Hi!
Just popping in to wish you well. I can recommend getting support from other adopters- especially those some years ahead who will understand better the enormous pressures on you all. Some of the darker thoughts (that are perfectly normal) cannot safely be said to a social worker! It may be helpful to know that almost all adopters who take on a group suffer some degree of post adoption depression. It takes time for children to settle and feel secure enough to reduce testing and attention seeking behaviour- the longer the period of disruption pre-placement the more time it takes. I was told roughly double and it was helpful to know that and lower my expectations and take one day at a time!
You sound like you are managing extraordinarily well.
Good luck with the legal side.
Most of all -take care of you! Magso

Sorry I'm resurrecting this but we've had a tough evening and I wondered if anyone could help us through it....

Our eldest(8) has generally been more settled lately - still a bit distant and less affectionate than the others but OK. She has had minor complaints about school and says she doesn't want to go, but when I spoke to her teacher she seems to be doing well there.

However she is quite often visiting friends after school and when she does, is very difficult when she gets home. Last night she was very angry and eventually shared some stuff about her birth mum and seemed to be struggling to reconcile her different lives - particularly around money (we live in a more affluent are than her birth mum). Eventually she calmed and we had a wonderful half hour where she wanted me to kiss her and blow raspberries on her tummy over and over again, whilst in fits of giggles.

Today, she was great this morning, then we went to our village show and she met a friend there and went back with her. However she was awful when she got back here - very angry and then at bedtime went "beserk" refusing to go to bed and disrupting the others. We were struggling and I don't think we handled it well - we threatened to put her in the porch, she continued to misbehave, so we did - she did calm down but also peed the floor. She has now gone to bed but I'm not sure what to do. She is also back to rejecting any form of affection.

She has asked to go to a sleep over at her friend's in a couple of weeks, but I'm not sure we should let her have so much contact if this is the result, but on the other hand I think it is important that she builds good friendships.

I'm not sure how best to support her - she is obviously upset and confused but struggling to understand it or know what to do.

Anyway, any advice or thoughts welcome.

Bop

I don't know much about adoption, but ... is she problematic only after visiting a particular friend? Or any friend?

Can you talk to her about it?

It sounds like this friend (or all her friends) remind her of her birth family, or unsettle her somehow.

Can you encourage her to have her friends over, rather than going to theirs?

Thanks NQC

Its been two different friends this week and to be fair she also plays up when she has friends here. Its like she starts rejecting me as her mum and anything I ask her to do I gets a "no" (rather like a todller would).

I've tried talking to her about it and tonight I just got that "she feels crazy".

I wish I knew how to handle/support her when she is like this.

mBop

mbop - what do you know about her past experiences putting her in the porch may be similar to her experience with birth mother, also she is likely to regress in the inital phase of living with you she needs help and support to work through reconciling her two families in her head to understand she can love you

not much knowledge on adoption but child needs to learn firm boundaries.
I would take every thing from her room except bed amd clothes and let her earn every thing back .
If she does well in any area reward with and item returned but reward every little achievement so she learns the difference with good and bad attention seeking behaviour,
good luck

I would agree with Maryz that it is worth discussing these visits in advance. If you can, try to avoid spur of the moment arrangements. It does not sound as though she feels settled and comfortable enough to switch easily between different homes, without fall-out. If you could have a prearranged visit to a friend, say once a week, you could talk together beforehand about what might be difficult/confusing as well as what she might enjoy. That way she will feel as though things are out in the open, rather than swirling around in her head.

Well done - it sounds like you are doing great with the children.

I know very little about adoption but I have 3 DDs, the youngest of whom is 8. What I do know is that children of that age can spend enormous amounts of time at school/ friends houses trying to fit in and then come home and behave like anti-Christs. My eldest (now 11) and middle (now 9) did this big time until recently but youngest one still does: all their emotional energy goes into the activity outside the home so they have no reserves to deal withhome life. This is 3 children who have stable, happy home environments. I still find it very difficult to deal with.

My advice is 1) reduce visits after school - have friends at weekends/ Fridays when less pressure. 2) FOOD - different kids have different metabolisms but mine need to eat and drink when they are tired and worst rows are frequently when tired and hungry. Just happen to have a banana with you on the way home from school; 3) don't try to do too much too quickly: snuggling up with microwaved popcorn to watch a film you all like in the afternoon is the hight of decadence in our house and is only done about twice a year but really settles everyone; 4) prepare food duringthe day: spag bol/ shep pie/ curry etc can be made in advance so when she comes in from school you don't need to be preparing food and ddealing with tantrums/ bad behaviour; 5) drink water: I know this seems incredibly silly but I have recently realised that I also need to eat/ drink and can be just as ratty as my kids if I havn't!

I wish you all well and only ask that you ask advice from support services and not expect miracles: all parets are continually evolving their strategies/ approaches for setting boundaries within loving environment. You hav a wonderful but daunting opportunity ahead of you and more than anything need time and understanding on all sides

Thanks everyone - lots of useful thoughts and advice.

Will have to have a chat with her today - she is in a great mood this morning! Hopefully we can find a sensible compromise.

The friends this week are "new" friends - although the week before she met up with an "old" friend and we got a similar (but less extreme) reaction.

Yesterday she was also hungry - she is being very ontrolling over food at the moment - so she'd eaten ahrdley any lunch and came back later than her normal teatime, but was fed almost immediately (but ate little, despite it being one of her favourites - that's another thread!)

We're also getting lots of fantasy stories - amking up what she does at friends houses and denying things she has done here. I'm not sure she can distinguish what's real at the moment.

Thanks again
Bop

Poor little thing - she sounds like she's trying to control things in her own way, which is very hard on you!

It's worth looking out for behaviour that you would expect in a much younger child, because emotionally she probably is much younger than her chronological age. Therefore it is worth, in your mind, thinking of her as younger than she is, so that you can make allowances and offer a more protective approach than you would with an 8 year old who has not had the disrupted life she has had.

Could it be that she sees the relationships the friends have with their parents and it brings it back to her that she'll never have that with her birth parents?

I think the misbehaving is quite normal, trying to see how far she can push you and how you'll take it.

Hope things get better soon.

hi mb

sorry if this sounds brusque - am typing one handed today

i think she is telling you that she cant handle all these differnt activities

i agree with janni over spur of the momnet arrangements

imo its far too soon for all these visits , shows etc. if it were me i would have her at home all the time shes not at school. you are only a few weeks into placement. she has years to form friends and needs to bond with you and dh now. not as respite carers but as mum and dad

control battles over food etc classic. also peeing

do not get into battles over what goes into or comes out of the body. you cannot win

i think you know now that time outs not good for her. she needs time in

dont do deprivation as disclipline. she has lost her parents - why would she care about stuff?

sorry but i think you are trying to treat her as a normal 8yo and you are not recognising her special needs. most of the advice here is good for normal kids but the opposite of whats needed for kids with attachment issues