Lying

[Jigglypufff]

Hello,

I've got an AC 8 and a BC 6. My AC is amazing, funny, kind (but tries to hide it). He has a sensory processing disorder, dyspraxia and probably ADHD. We are having a big problem with lying. He lies about anything little or big. Can be anything. I've been trying not to get frustrated. Telling him what I know to be truth stating it as fact. Then following through with a natural consequence as we normally would. If he's taken money, he puts it back. If he eats sweets that were for pudding, there are now no sweets, so he can have fruit or yoghurt.

This has been going on for about a year. I had a hard day yesterday and called him a liar and said I didn't believe what he was telling me and I was sick of all the lies. Something I would never normally do I was just at the end of my rope.

I did some comforting work afterwards and spent some bonding time doing Lego reading stories to reconnect.

I just don't know what else I can do? Does anyone have any tips?

Hey there. I don't know how much help I will be but just wanted to show some solidarity. My little boy (adopted) is of a similar age and also has the tendency to lie as first default. We've worked on it over time and I've learnt a little along the way. I realised with help we were accessing that lying for adopted children can be a defense mechanism because they are very prone to feelings of shame/I'm not good enough etc. If he has ADHD as does my son he probably has at times a lot of impulsive behaviours. It's like my sons brain sometimes tells him to do the exact thing he's been asked not to do or he knows will get him into trouble. Then he can't admit what he's done and goes into a shame spiral and we used to get locked into this constant pattern of annoying impulsive thing, me telling him off, him feeling shame and digging heels in further and then never getting to the actual truth. Then I would feel bad giving consequences.

It sounds like you're doing a lot right re natural consequences and stating facts. Over time I've built up a rule that the most.imoortant thing is the truth. That I won't be angry if he tells me the truth and we can deal with it together but I will be disappointed in him if he lies to me (I phrase this as because then I can't help him - context being this usually relates to something he's done at school and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it). I also do a bit of deliberate faux naivety. So if he has broken a toy because he was too rough and claims it happened all by itself I'll show mock curiosity. Oh that's strange I'm not sure how a dinosaur toy could leap into a wall by itself
..how did that happen? Etc

I usually accept now that I will not get the truth immediately. I give a cool down period (in my head) of about half an hour and then I will talk to him about it (when I feel calmer too). By that point I will feel more regulated myself to speak in a neutral tone, state facts, and follow through with a natural consequence. Sometimes we feel everything has to be immediate but I find that pause before addressing it has been one of the things that has really helped. I think it partly works because some of the lying is about anticipating being told off. It takes some wind out the sails if they don't see a big reaction and then I find he's more likely to come round and admit the truth a little later in the day once he realises I won't blow my fuse!

I've been trying not to get frustrated. Telling him what I know to be truth stating it as fact. Then following through with a natural consequence as we normally would. If he's taken money, he puts it back. If he eats sweets that were for pudding, there are now no sweets, so he can have fruit or yoghurt.

Lying is often a shame response, so you stating facts merely compounds the shame making it hard for him to own up or acknowledge what really happened.

I approach it much like @teekay88, lots of playfulness “how on earth did doggy reach the biscuit tin” type stuff when my DC we’re younger, not getting angry, not needing to state facts, or win getting the truth.

Now they are older we’ll have a conversation, I’ll ask them what happened and listen for clues as to why they might be lying. I’ll then explain what I think might have happened and how I feel about it. We then stop talking about it until they are ready - they know they can always come and tell me the truth and I’ll listen to them without anger.

We’re now at the point where they will almost always come back - sometimes sooner than others. I always thank them for telling me the truth, acknowledge how hard it was for them to tell the truth and we’ll agree on whatever consequences there might be. Key to the whole process is focussing on the desired behaviour, not making a big deal out of the lying and not getting into a fight about rights and wrongs. It’s slow work.

Thank you both for the responses. I really appreciate it.

I thought we were taking the right tack with the stating facts bit. So it's good to know that it might be better to pivot away from that and try the playfulness.

The shame aspect is a big part I wanted to help with so this seems like it will be a better approach.

My son is of similar age and we have a big problem with lying too. Part of it is age (children are exploring what they can get away with) but a huge, bigger part is to to with trauma/how he processes the world. Here is a few examples:

boy runs through the hall and knocks over the coat stand. I ask boy to pick up the coats. Boy: it wasn’t me. Me: I didn’t say it was you but can you please help me pick them up? Boy: but you are blaming me, you’ve said it’s all my fault, that I knocked it over. Me: no I didn’t but can you help me clean it up, I don’t want anyone to trip. Boy: why should I clean it up, it wasn’t me. Ask the person who knocked it over. Me: fine, you knocked it over. Boy: told you, you are blaming me! Me: I don’t care who knocked it over but it would be easier if you passed me the coats. Boy: screaming, shouting, calling me all sorts of names. Me: maybe you need to calm down. Boy: storms upstairs and me take a big sigh,
head in hands thinking, why???? After sufficient time, me: hey, what was all that about, boy? Boy: you blamed me for knocking over the coats. Me: I didn’t initially, I wasn’t fussed about the coats, these things happen. It’s gravity, always catching us out. Boy: I didn’t know I knocked over the coat stand. Me: I know. Really the coats aren’t a big deal, we just need to get them off the floor and it’s easier if we work together. You made that so much worse for yourself, you know. Boy: I know, I’m sorry. Both go and tidy up coats.

the problem with this lying, is that boy has sensory processing issues and didn’t feel when he bumped into the coats. Then add in the trauma response and we have a recipe for disaster. I avoid this as much as possible.

second example, playing at the park with a friend. Boy goes to snatch bucket from friend, friend jerks away and spills it over another child. Other child starts crying. Mum asks what happened. Boy says: it wasn’t me. It was friend. Friend says it wasn’t just me, it was boy too. Boy calls friend a liar. This escalates very quickly.

for boy, his reality is, he didn’t have his hand on rhe bucket, so it wasn’t him. However, looking at the scenario as a whole, he influenced his friends behaviour but boy is unable to understand cause and effect yet. Therefore, his friend is lying and he is telling the truth. For him, it’s how he understands the world. I really don’t know how to help with this one!

another example, is boy has eaten chocolate and lies and says he has lost it. Boy: I’ve lost my chocolate, can I have another? Me: how disappointing. I know you were looking forward to it. Let’s see if we can find it together. Go through a big pantomime of looking for it. If we come across wrapper in pocket, (for he will never litter!) call him out and say oh looks like your eaten it already. Mystery solved! And offer more food. If not, offer sympathy and then get alternative snacks.

boy knows if he asks outright, he won’t get another chocolate so worth a try??

if a toy gets broken, we don’t blame anyone (although boy blames everyone else!) and put it in the bin saying something like “we can’t play with it know, it’s sharp and I don’t want anyone to get hurt”.

the hardest one to deal with is the once where he blames others for things. Not quite lying but similar. An example would be he can’t find his school bag so everyone in the class must have stolen it. It’s trying to explain gently that no one would do that and that it’s likely misplaced. This is similar to if he gets hurt. Someone must have pushed him. He often blames the nearest person for causing it. I just reiterate that I would never hurt him but it was gravity pulling him to the ground again.

as you can see, boy has lots of deficits in his thinking. There is a lack of understanding around cause and effect, people and relationships, gravity, sensory processing which makes the world a really scary place because he believes his lies, it’s his reality. Add on the fact he will sometimes make up lies (then believes them), it makes for a lot
of conflict. We remind him to think before he speaks all the time and to take time to try and understand what has happened before blaming someone else/lying/getting angry but it is hard for him and for us. We are trying really hard as a family to support him

hope some of these can relate. You certainly not alone and wow, do I get it wrong so many times a day!

I thought we were taking the right tack with the stating facts bit. So it's good to know that it might be better to pivot away from that and try the playfulness.

The problem with stating the facts is it sets up a “win/lose” situation and makes the child double up on their story - because in the past it’s not been safe for them to be in the wrong. When they feel safer in their relationships they might tolerate a factual approach but they aren’t there yet. Being playful communicates that everything doesn’t need to be high stakes and gives space for them to process their initial fear response in a low conflict (ie safer) way.

Again thank you so much for the further explanations.
I hadn't even thought about "in the past" because he has been with us from 6 months. I had looked more at the early age side in terms of his needs not being met and his brain developing. He was born with Neo natal Abstinence Syndrome.

Adoption is a constant learning curve. I had been using the Sarah Naish advice on lying which I where I got the stating the truth part.

Does anyone have any other recommendations reading wise?

@121Sarah121 I can relate to all of these scenarios! Some of them we have the same approach, stating I would never hurt him when he falls/trips etc.

He's a total joy, but sometimes it's such a mental slog.

We recently did Filial therapy paid for by the PAS team which really helped with him and his sisters relationship.

Sometimes I feel that I get to grips with one thing, then my strategies have to change in a few months to combat something else.

The difficulty when they’re so young at placement is that no one really knows what they experienced. Trauma will be stored as physical sensations, sense of dread etc and no one can tell you where it comes from or what triggers it. In terms of reading, have a look at Dan Hughes - and older theorist but a proponent of PACE parenting, which is therapeutic in nature. The reality is you’ll need a wide toolkit for parenting your little one, some will work well, some will work well for a while and some just won’t suit you or your little one so read widely both mainstream parenting approaches and ones designed for care experienced children. You’ll work out the right thing for your child.