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BM contesting contact order

21 replies

suzylee73 · 25/04/2024 14:28

Hi all,

We are so close to the final hearing for the adoption order but birth mum is contesting. She isn't contesting the the adoption itself but wants direct contact which we have been against during the whole process. BM has stated that we agreed to it and now we have changed our mind which is not at all true.

Has anyone come across this before? I have trawled the internet and found nothing relating to a contact order dispute at this stage.

OP posts:
MamaBear2210T · 25/04/2024 21:41

Courts will have seen this all before. What do the social work reports say? Do they suggest direct contact? It's highly unlikely they would.

suzylee73 · 26/04/2024 09:29

My local authority are all about direct contact post adoption, they were a little pushy about it to be honest.
I have nothing against it as such but I am not a fan and we were so adamant we wouldn't agree to it.
I am worried that they have said to BM that they are moving towards direct contact and have led her on a bit hoping we would change our mind.

OP posts:
LeoLeo2 · 26/04/2024 16:25

There is growing evidence that continued contact in some form or another is beneficial for adopted children - I think there was a study released last year by Post Adoption Centre. Many Local Authorities are therefore following this research and aiming for more direct contact than has been standard for many years.

It sadly is not quite as simple as the study implies, partly because many of the people involved in the research were adults who had been adopted in the 1960s and 70s for reasons far different from those behind the majority of modern adoptions. However, unless the Local Authority believe there would be any ongoing risk by having contact, they will likely recommend some level of direct contact.

Are there reasons, other than your own preference, why direct contact would be a risk for your child?

Perhaps writing out a list of the risks and the benefits for your child next to your reasons for not wanting contact may help to clarify your thoughts and possibly then either give you something clear and reasoned to speak to the LA about or help you accept that contact may be beneficial.

We do not have direct contact; it would not be appropriate or safe. I do know many others who do though. Their experiences vary hugely. Some have had difficulties due to the inconsistency of the birth parent showing up - and the impact this has on a child. These parents have however said that it has helped their child understand the reasons for their adoption and helped them not to fantasise about what their life could have been. Some started with more regular meet ups of several times a year but have found as their child has grown older, they don't want to meet so often as there is no meaningful relationship between them and their birth parent.

All have said they were initially worried about how their child would cope with the meetings and also their own feelings of possibly being rejected as 'not my Mum'. For several, the meetings do cause distress - but also then allow processing and reflection so a step forward is made in both security and identity.

None of the people I know who have had direct contact have been rejected in favour of birth parents - but I do know of several who had no contact when younger but once teens or young adults have sought contact by themselves only for it to go badly wrong or devastate their relationships with their family.

I don't think there is an easy answer. There never is to any adoption question! Only you can know the full situation and the best plan for your child.

Torvy · 26/04/2024 19:40

@LeoLeo2 that's a really thoughtful answer- I hadn't thought about some of those aspects to it. I am following along because i was hoping to be able to have contact woth our sons' BM, but it was not deemed appropriate or safe at the moment. Just to jump on, I wonder, do you know of anyone who was in that situation and then it changed? If so do you know how anyone might have been able to make a judgement about that or where they might have got the information from?

@suzylee73 Its hard because when SWs try to push more than you are ready its easy for them to get your back up. I would say be aware of being defensive, but it is also easier to give information later than take it back. If you are adamant it is not the right move, stick to your guns and hold out. There is always time later on when everything is a bit more settled to go back and loosen it if needed, although this could lead to BPs getting the idea it can be loosened a lot. I suppose if you have a little give in the arrangements from the off, you could argue that everyone knows where they stand and nothing needs to change, but that's presuming BPs don't push further.

Long term though, I do think @LeoLeo2 is right- direct contact has generally been shown to be positive in the long term, but it is you who will have to facilitate it and support with the repercussions.

I assume that the SW have already submitted their contact plan to court though, haven't they? Ours was pretty much set from the off, it wasn't much of a negotiation point to be honest.

suzylee73 · 27/04/2024 10:45

Thank you for your replies

It is a foster to adopt placement so I have met BM many many times and at the moment direct contact would not be emotionally safe for the child. I don't want to speak ill of BM she deserves my empathy and she has it but that said I can't trust her around my child. Maybe in the future who knows

It's a worrying time I think it is normal to worry, I just need to have faith in the court and be patient.

OP posts:
Buttonmoon92 · 27/04/2024 16:39

@suzylee73 this is so strange. I literally came on to post about direct contact and can't find any other threads and then your post pops up.

Unfortunately no advice from me. I attended an info event this morning and was slightly alarmed to discover, after someone asked, that birth family contact can include face to face meets. I can appreciate all decisions are made in the best interests of the child. But surely they have been removed from BF for a reason, would face to face contact not be detrimental to young children and undermine adoptive relationships? What are we babysitters? Sorry if that sounds harsh, im just shocked.

suzylee73 · 28/04/2024 09:58

@Buttonmoon92 I am so glad you posted so I can reassure you. The social workers will say a lot of things that might worry you and might make you think adoption is not for you.

When my adoption journey is over I am going to recommend a foster carer be a part of the 4 day adoption training. We do this for new foster carers and it works really well. It gives a realistic insight into living day to day with a young person, the good and the bad. When you finally get to meet the carer of your child they will have all the information you need, they are privy to so much you won't yet know.

Just remember this is your journey, you are in charge and will make the right decisions even if it in means being selfish or stubborn.

Direct contact is a choice your choice

OP posts:
Buttonmoon92 · 28/04/2024 19:09

@suzylee73 Thank you so much for your reply. I'm only at the initial stages, but I do have a sw home visit this week and I was really excited about it until I heard this news, which really puts me off. You've made me feel a lot better tbh. I'm not some old fashioned frump who thinks adopted children should be kept in the dark. I completely agree with life story work and letterbox contact and keeping in contact with foster carers and potentially meeting bf. But twice yearly meet ups really sounds like you'll be constantly dragged back a step, and also safety concerns? I'll see what they say this week and if I'm going to have to go along with it.

Parksitting · 29/04/2024 20:11

@Buttonmoon92 in my experience at this early stage what they want potential adopters to understand is that direct ongoing e.g. twice yearly contact could be something posed as possible in the instance of the circumstances being safe and supported. The research shows the positive impact of this kind of contact, but I have yet to meet anyone in the 4 years we have been in process who has ongoing direct contact with birth parents. Although we know plenty with contact with siblings and a couple with grandparents.

In our case we were asked repeatedly if we would consider ongoing contact post adoption and said yes provided there was local authority support in place for the birth parents to navigate this every year as their day to day life skills are very limited and they both have direct support in other areas of their lives. Both my partner and I work with vulnerable people including those with learning disabilities and our SW was great in supporting us in pushing back as clearly the LA thought we were a soft touch who would take this on with no intervention from them. (And then they could clap themselves on the back for delivering "best practice'.) We stood firm as without LA support it would have been impossible - unless we had a burner phone for 18 years, etc. As it was letterbox was what was agreed and this is working well.

Buttonmoon92 · 29/04/2024 20:19

@Parksitting

Thank you. So if I'm understanding you correctly, they wanted you to sort out the arrangements yourselves and contact the birth family directly?

Beetham · 29/04/2024 20:59

I agree with other posters that there is a real focus on post adoption contact at the moment, for good reason but I do worry about LAs making decisions for the sake of apearances rather than in the children's best interests.

My oldest has direct contact once a year, at the moment it works for everyone (and most importantly my daughter) but as time goes on I can see a day when we might need to pause it. Its really valuable for us as my daughter is growing up neither idolising them as saints nor seeing them as evil monsters, they are her birth parents who love her but could not parent her adequately, even with significant input. They are never antagonistic or difficult, they are always very polite and appropriate (although there are differences in their approach to DD e.g. they are very keen she is top of the class in school, and want her to dress very traditionally femininely, however I feel able to redirect these conversations fine), if this wasn't the case I would not do contact.

However the way that contact is being talked about really riles me, there was Adoption and Fostering podcast last year (I think) with people from the RAA Adoption Counts talking about contact, and I remember them saying something along the lines of 'BPs and APs should be able to manage contact, people always want us involved but they are all adults and so it they should be able to manage' (full disclosure that could be a unfavourable interpretation of what was said). But there are lots of things we don't leave adults to do because of the stakes involved, think of the amount of police at football matches. And there aren't really any higher stakes than people's children, and once you add in the emotions of adoption and the often complex lives that BPs live- of course lots of families will need support with managing direct contact. Well done @Parksitting on pushing back.

Parksitting · 29/04/2024 21:46

Yes that's right @Buttonmoon92 . It wasn't really a fully formed or thoughtout idea from the LA tbh. I think they thought we would work it out and take it on due to our professional experience, but when we asked about risk assessments, support workers, etc it all got very quiet.

Gruffallowhydidntyouknow · 27/05/2024 19:32

Buttonmoon92 · 27/04/2024 16:39

@suzylee73 this is so strange. I literally came on to post about direct contact and can't find any other threads and then your post pops up.

Unfortunately no advice from me. I attended an info event this morning and was slightly alarmed to discover, after someone asked, that birth family contact can include face to face meets. I can appreciate all decisions are made in the best interests of the child. But surely they have been removed from BF for a reason, would face to face contact not be detrimental to young children and undermine adoptive relationships? What are we babysitters? Sorry if that sounds harsh, im just shocked.

Edited

I agree. Adoptive parents are a child's parents. Direct contact stops the child living a normal life in a normal family. It keeps the concept of having two families. Children should be brought up as normal children away from those that caused them harm.

suzylee73 · 28/05/2024 13:40

Just a quick update.....

The adoption order was granted!! We are so relieved and it's hard to process that we have an actual daughter and full parental rights.

BM didn't contest in the end she said she couldn't get a solicitor.

Birth dad has out of the blue contacted social services after not wanting to be involved at all.

He now wants to meet with us and would like a goodbye contact with my daughter. She doesn't know him as he hasn't seen her since she was a baby.
I am sure he feels pain and regret but I cannot introduce him to my child only to say goodbye, the whole idea to me seems ridiculous?

But Social Services think it would be nice.

OP posts:
Redtedblue · 28/05/2024 14:43

Congratulations! I would meet up with him yourselves as it will be invaluable in future years. I would make a decision about a final goodbye contact after this.

suzylee73 · 29/05/2024 17:13

Redtedblue · 28/05/2024 14:43

Congratulations! I would meet up with him yourselves as it will be invaluable in future years. I would make a decision about a final goodbye contact after this.

I can't see what value is in this? I just can't see it but I have agreed to meet him. I don't want to do it though I think it will stir up feelings of guilt and it makes me feel anxious.

I want to feel positive about it. Anyone else been here but are glad they met up?

OP posts:
solongandthanksforallthedish · 29/05/2024 21:54

suzylee73 · 28/05/2024 13:40

Just a quick update.....

The adoption order was granted!! We are so relieved and it's hard to process that we have an actual daughter and full parental rights.

BM didn't contest in the end she said she couldn't get a solicitor.

Birth dad has out of the blue contacted social services after not wanting to be involved at all.

He now wants to meet with us and would like a goodbye contact with my daughter. She doesn't know him as he hasn't seen her since she was a baby.
I am sure he feels pain and regret but I cannot introduce him to my child only to say goodbye, the whole idea to me seems ridiculous?

But Social Services think it would be nice.

Congratulations!

I would not offer contact with my child, but would offer contact with us parents if safe, so you can tell the child about them, and ongoing annual letterbox.

It's hard to explain how much I wish I'd met BPs to help with life story work. It's hard to do, but I've never heard of anyone who regretted it. It helps build a picture of a real, flawed, but human and good at heart person as their BP, rather than the necessarily negative picture from the CPR. Obviously, you may know of major safety concerns? Or other reasons you really don't want to. But I think the strength of being able to say 'I've met the people who made you, they loved you but couldn't look after you, you have the same dimple... we drank tea, and I promised I'd love you forever and keep you safe." I wish I could tell mine that.

Torvy · 30/05/2024 04:01

I think with a goodbye contact, it depends on the age of the child. If the child is very young and won't remember consciously, I can imagine that knowing later on in life knowing that you were all in the same room, that you were involved with them in a painful part of their life but helped them through it, might be helpful. It might also help BF to come to terms with you and see you not as a boogeyman, which may pay dividends later on if your child seeks them out- you are neither a saint nor an evil person, you are someone they have met and known and felt reassured by. You as adults both have a realistic picture of each other. I would be asking what harm it could do for a supervised final contact visit with a baby with someone who is essentially a stranger versus the benefits of knowing you met them later on in life. However, if the child has the capacity to explicitly remember, say is older than 2 and a half, 3, my answer might be different... although also maybe not. Although it might be a bit distressing, it can provide real closure and an outlet for grief. There is a reason we have rituals around grief and loss like funerals, and it is because it is cathartic and gives us closure and emotional release.

I try to be empathetic to BPs as well- imagine you didn't know a meeting was your final meeting with someone you loved. What would you have done differently? The regret may mean they are unable to have closure too, and who knows what impact that may have on them? Its not my place to mete out punishment. The courts have already done that by saying they don't get to be my child's parent any more, which is the worst punishment I could imagine. The idea that I wouldn't have the chance to say a proper goodbye but someone had denied me would eat me alive and make me so bitter and angry. I don't know what I would do, apart from move heaven and earth to try and find out who or what had caused me to feel such pain. As an AP, I would hate it if I had in any way caused BPs to make worse choices over something I had control over, not for their sake but for our children's. I want my kids to grow up knowing I chose empathy and kindness wherever possible because I want them to do the same. I never want them to think that I did something to hurt someone who will always be a part of them. I want them to know that I don't think their BPs are bad or dirty or shameful or evil, just people who did not have the tools and knowledge and skills to parent them in the way that I do. I can accept that part of them with grace and empathy and care, even if BPs don't have the capacity to return it and my children don't know whether they want that. Our child asks whether we are scared of BPs. I feel it would carry so much more weight if we could say of course not, we met them. To me, a final contact is so important for everyone to be able to draw a line under everything and move forward. It provides clarity to child and birth parent from someone who isn't you. It isn't you as a parent who is telling them this difficult information, which can help them to externalise and process it and then turn to you for comfort. Sometimes you need someone external to the process to deliver difficult information. The child can be angry at the professional external party (sorry SW!). And you can support and love them as their parent. As someone whose child was not told their final contact would be final, and had to tell my child myself, I can tell you that this can have lasting ramifications! It's easy for the child to feel like you are the one saying it has to be final. Allowing SWs to do that bit for you can help with their understanding and processing of that information.

I would also be assessing how it could go wrong, and balancing the risks. What does wrong look like? Is it unsafe? Or just unpleasant? Who is unsafe or uncomfortable? Is it the child or the adults? If it is the adults, can this be tolerated for the sake of the child? If it is the child, can it be tolerated for their future wellbeing? We make children do uncomfortable things all.the time for their future health and happiness. Is it possible this is one of those things?

Depending on the reality of BPs lives, it may well also be that they don't live until your child is old enough to contact them. We can't meet our children's BPs, and we know that their lifestyles are high risk. There is every chance that we may never get to meet them, and they will never meet them again. The only people who have met BPs that the children will know long term are their last foster carers. They are the only ones who can genuinely say to the children whether they act like them or look like them, and that brings up complicated feelings for me. I really really wish I could do that for them, so that I could speak about them in the way that you might do a departed grandparent- oh you have his eye, or you smile just like them. The child wouldn't have to wonder because I would know. They wouldn't have to be dependent on their FC to have that information. I know their FC are good people who wouldn't withold anything, but they don't have the same vested interest in knowing that. I can't imagine there being a part of my child's life that I wouldn't be desperate to be privy to for their sake in the future. They may never get a chance to meet them again, but imagine how powerful it would be if they knew you had. Or even if not for your child, for their children. Imagine you have a grandchild who wants to know more about their birth grandparents. I would want to be able to say I met them. You become the guardian of your child's history, not just for them but for future generations.

Alternatively, imagine your children found out you had the opportunity and chose not to take it on their behalf. You know your child best, and their history and temperament, but I know for sure my kids are so curious and insightful that they want to know as much as they can. In the same way they proclaim they don't want to eat their vegetables though, they tell me they don't want to know about BPs. And yet I find them asking me about BPs in the same way that I find them snaffling all the bloody cucumber from the fridge when they think I'm not looking. Their body knows they want it even if their head says they want haribo! I want to be able to give them as many answers as possible so they don't need to seek them elsewhere unless they actively want to.

We have grilled FC as much as we can about BPs in lieu of being allowed to meet them. How did they dress, what cars they drove, what food they ate. It informs our family traditions, we have certain food on mothers day to celebrate and honour the connection, we speak about certain professions carefully, we do certain things at Christmas and Eid to maintain a connection if the children want it. We can say we did that, but it all comes from through a FC and SW lens. Imagine how much more powerful it would be if you could know for sure yourself what they did and how they acted.

As you can probably tell, I repectfully have a different perspective to @Gruffallowhydidntyouknow and @Buttonmoon92 in regards to knowing about BPs and integrating them into our children's lives. I can acknowledge this comes woth bias though. It comes from knowing our children's BPs life history and being able to understand why they made the choices they did. The choices were definitely poor ones that were detrimental to the children and impossible to be reconciled with safe or adequate parenting, but we understand why they were made. It may not be the same in your case.

I don't really believe that you can say adopted children have a 'normal' family because they don't- they have their forever family and a birth family, and they will forever be connected, which isn't the typical experience of most children. That's OK, its nothing to be ashamed of. Normal is not necessarily aspirational! Adoption is not particularly common or normal, and we don't pretend to our kids it is, because it would be denying their complex reality. And that reality is complex and messy and we know we will have to do and commit to things for which there is no blueprint, no pathway and nobody to really guide us because the sample sizes are just too small. So few adoptions happen each year that it is impossible to really find applicable statistics to guide decisions. When you are the only person in Staffordshire to have adopted a three year old with autism in 2023, or the only gay couple to have mixed race adopted siblings in Milton Keynes in 2024, you find that its hard to rely on anyone else for exactly the right advice that pertains to your situation, and even more difficult to act "normally". Most people don't have to write a letter twice a year to BPs. Most people have never been through the adoption assessment process. Most people don't have to explain things like abuse or neglect to their kids so early on. None of that is "normal"... but it is OK. It just means you can't rely as much on typical advice.

Subsequently, the difficulty is that most advice you get is anecdotal, through adoption forums like this and adoption networks, and may or may not be applicable to your individual circumstances. It may be that you read all of the above amd know it doesn't totally apply to you- thats ok. It may be that parts of it do apply to you, but not others. To me, the process of asking for advice is about a way to guide your thinking. You can know that you have genuinely thought about each element and come to a considered conclusion based on the information you had at the time. I think that as APs, we have to just listen to other people's experiences, and make the best, most morally informed choice based on what we think to be right at the time, and extend compassion and grace to ourselves and others who are doing the same thing. It is both comforting and demoralising to appreciate that you will never be able to make the "right" decision, because there is no authority sat there judging and telling you it is black or white, right or wrong. You may never know whether it was "right". It is about making the best decision you can. That decision should be designed to both minimise harm and maximise benefit in whatever way you can, and then owning that choice you made. And part of being an adoptive parent to be is being able to sit with the complexity of your child's situation, and that your choices can affect this, acknowledge their multiple and competing realities and support them through it, and make choices with and for them that you know will either maximise benefit or minimise harm- but with the tacit understanding that you may still cause some harm or lose some benefit in the process. Minimising harm doesn't mean no harm. Maximising benefit doesn't mean totally beneficial.

Whatever decision you make, I would make it balancing and considering the knowledge that you have of BPs, of your child's current and future needs, and your capacity to get support for them and yourself to process it at each step.

I wish you wisdom in decision making- it isn't easy when it is your real life and not just some decontextualised theoretical stranger on the Internet. These are big decisions and big choices.

Beetham · 30/05/2024 09:49

@suzylee73 , I haven't been in this exact situation but had an oportunity to gain more info about and meet BPs and wider family. I wobbled backwards and forwards alot, and actually was advised by DD's SW not to go as they were worried about the stability of our placement (not due to safety risks but more about BPs behaviour was so horrendous they thought it would put me off, despite DD already being home with me for several months- I obviously can't tell the full story here but trust me it was an absolute mess). An older and wiser friend who is an adopter said to me the night before if you don't do it you can never go back and do it. It was a very challenging day but I am infinately glad I went as any scrap of information is so helpful for our children who often have big gaps in their history.

@Torvy I think you make some excellent points, I don't want to derail the thread or discourage you as your posts are so detailed and full of wisdom but I wanted to pick up the point about the 'punishment' of BP's having their children removed. I agree that permanently severing PR and contact is one of the, if not the most severe and consequential things a court can do; however I think that the language of punishment can be dangerous. Instead it should be about harm and risk, my children weren't removed to punish their BPs, but because their parents were inflicting very significant abuse on them which will have life long consequences for the girls, to describe it as 'punishment' makes BP's victims of the court which I don't think is right (although obviously most/all BP's are victims in many, many ways, but I don't think removal is one of them). It is also not helpful for our children as they come to know their life story shouldn't be the 'tool' to punish their parents, it should be more facual about harm and risk, recognising that BP's are victims of things like DV, poor parenting of BPs, crime, abuse etc. but that their removal was about nothing but keeping them safe.

Torvy · 01/06/2024 11:42

@Beetham good point, thank you for pulling me up on that! In my head I think i kind of meant like the court enacting life's natural consequences etc, but I agree- it made it sound like the courts removed the children so that the parents had a consequence, not so that the children were safe. I'm sorry!

Seahorsesplendour · 05/06/2024 22:30

I’m not going to go into lots of detail here but we do have direct contact with our ds biological mother we agreed to this as part of matching and have never regretted it, infact we are exploring the possibility of initiating direct contact with birth father also for various reasons.

Is it hard -absolutely
does it help our ds understand his roots and why he is adopted - absolutely
does it make me any less his mother or us any less his family - absolutely not.
We are very lucky and have been able to form a really positive relationship with his birth mom we have a fun day out altogether it naturally raises big emotions for us all but we get through it together & are stronger because of it.

i often wonder how much harder his burgeoning awareness of and interest in his birth family would be without this, I can’t imagine not doing this for him.

not judging anyone else for feeling/ doing differently, all families and circumstances are different and it absolutely isn’t safe or possible or right for everyone but just wanted to share a different angle from lived experience

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