Aggressive son

[DinosaursForSale]

Hey all,
Long time poster and reader but frequent name changer!
Going through a real rough patch. Both children adopted, AD9 and AS4. Not biologically related.
Both adopted slightly before age 1.

AD is an absolute joy most of the time, learning difficulties and vulnerable but still trying hard and very kind hearted (to a fault - makes her a target). I've had to really battle for all the help she gets but she is finally getting everything we can through the NHS and post adoption support.

AS is putting this family through the wringer. I absolutely adore him. But his behaviour is just impossible at the moment. He has always been a challenge, we knew he would be. He has a very loving heart but is so so aggressive and melts down at the drop of a hat. He was born withdrawing from drugs and we know of the trauma.

We've done everything we should. Post adoption support are providing therapy for him and diagnosed sensory issues and trauma but I'm seeing little difference. It is early days though and he is only just starting to trust the therapist so it's going to be slow. He will hit his sister for literally any reason. I suppose we could say small progress has been made if we look at him over the years. Some positives:

• He no longer bites (thank god)
• He is able to control himself at nursery part time. Which is amazing actually. Teacher says he is boisterous but absolutely no worse than the other boys. Occasionally hits but actually is bright and doing well. This does mean he is worse at home.
• I have been trying to teach him to use his words. For months. His speech is very good but the impulse control is not. Today, he screamed in fury at the rain then slapped me in the face. He later screamed at me that I had made him angry and sad. That's a win right?! We were then able to sit and calmly talk it through.
• He sleeps well - 12hrs a night.
• I've been provided with support too from post adoption support.

DH and I aren't doing so well therapeutically. We are at the end of our tether and have even discussed separating. We love each other but this situation is just making us both so unhappy. At least if we separate we can get a proper breather from the kids. But we aren't going to. Ultimately we love each other and our children but these years are hard.

I went part time to give the kids more time and actually it's just made him worse. So I'm going to find a full time job again. Why? To escape. That's how bad it is. He behaves for childcare etc.

We really are doing all that we can and the support we are accessing is honestly great. It's probably the only reason we are still together.

I'm finding I'm setting a poor example too. I'm becoming more reactive. When he slapped me in the face this morning, I stormed off and slammed a door. Which then made him sob. I then took some deep breaths and went back to have the feelings chat so it was repaired but I'm not setting a good example either.

I'm going to book them into childcare next week for a day for a break.

I don't know why I'm posting to be honest. I'm doing everything I can. Just progress is so so slow. Can anyone just offer me some words of encouragement?

Hi
My son is 8 adopted at 2.5 and we have had similar issues. He really struggles with temper, impulse control and aggressive too.
But we have had post adoption support and play therapist for him and a therapist for me and it is making a difference.
You listed all the good things I would concentrate on them and maybe put the list up on the fridge or have a photo of him doing something with you one of those photos that melts your heart and look at it for a quick reference when things are bad.

Definitely book in a rest day. I think adopted parents have a skewith look at this , bio parents do it but we think we can't for So many reasons but we can!!
If you have anyone to have kids organise a date night, you don't have to go out just put kids a bed, dress up open a bottle and takeaway it will be bliss.
I love love my job it's somewhere where I'm not mum, punch bag, therapist counselor etc and I can just switch off so I think a job is definitely something to look into.

I'm reactive to my child too it's impossible not to at times but I always say sorry, cuddle etc.
I'm not sure this is helpful but just wanted to send some support and hand holding and you are doing an amazing job!!
We are their safe harbour it's just hard to remember that all the time ☺️

Oh I hear you, loud and clear. It's so tough especially admitting to yourself that them hitting you and knowing why, is actually progress.

Please book the childminder for two days next week, one day for you to just be home alone resting in lovely lovely silence (!) and one to pop to the shops or a cafe - just get out for a little treat.

A social worker said to us once DON'T feel guilty about sending them to a club or childminder. Our sons sound similar - mine enjoys being greeted like an old friend by the adults when he gets there AND gets a 'day off' from having to play the role of the person he feels he has to with you (which is exhausting for my son as much as me), so it actually gives him a break too. No guilt needed!

Sending a virtual hug and a reminder that you've probably got a chocolate biscuit or two hidden in the back of the kitchen cupboard. Go and find the emergency hobnobs, you deserve them!

This sounds incredibly hard- I know it will be so hard.

I've read this a few times and here are my thoughts. I hope they are helpful.

Firstly you and your husband are doing an absolutely awesome job. I can see how much progress is being made.

I suspect that your son is 'behaving' at Nursery and being more dysregulated at home as he is Masking there and they aren't meeting his Needs.

Home is our kids Safe Space and we the parents will always get the full distress/trauma symptoms let out.

If your son went to nursery more or went to another child minder would that not make him Mask more and then he explodes more at home. So you would have had a break but that results in even more challenging times.

An example... my parents say "oooo we will look after AS8 for a few hours to give you a break". For me having that break is a complete waste of time. As I then get a day of HUGE dysregulation. Shouting, screaming, hitting, things being thrown, broken. It's not worth it and I feel a million times worse not better.

What my son needed was ME.

Thanks all - it's just impossibly hard right now. I really appreciate the kind words. I totally get that he is masking at nursery etc. it's a relief he can do it - it would be awful if he couldn't! He would probably end up being chucked out!

I'm right there on the break stuff. My kids are always vile after having time away from us. We always have to brace ourselves for the day after. DD gets super clingy and DS gets super aggressive.

They are both so different.

@DinosaursForSale Your last line “they are both so different” is because they are different people with different needs and managing that is so overwhelming. You manage that all the time and it is mentally and physically exhausting to do. You need some time for you to manage your own needs which are so often forgotten. How you do that, depends on your family circumstances.

for us, we manage it by both being part time. Is that an option for your family? We were able to reduce hours because we claimed dla. Do both kids get that? They should. Ask for support to fill it in. You might not be aware of how much extra support they need in comparison to children who haven’t experienced trauma and have lost sight of that benchmark. By both being part time, it is the only way we can get time to ourselves because we don’t need to manage full time work on top of managing the kids needs. It allows us to tag team if we are both at home more allowing us to be better parents. Sending them to childcare next week is short term and will be wrought with consequences. What’s your long term plan?

youve got lots of support in place, that’s excellent. It normally takes years to get to that point. Time to re-evaluate before you burn out. Not long til transition and summer holidays. You might need to start planning now!

When he slapped me in the face this morning, I stormed off and slammed a door. Which then made him sob

This is a normal response to being assaulted. I know we don’t like to use perjorative language but someone hitting you is assault, when we are assaulted we want to get to a place of safety. Adoptive parenting means constantly over riding our natural instincts for self protection, which is stressful and exhausting.

You went back and had the feelings chat, which is great. Don’t forget the feelings chat goes both ways though, so he could tell you why he slapped and what he was feeling but you also need to tell him (in age appropriate language) how you felt when he hit you and why you slammed the door. That helps the process of mentalisation for him which is thinking about what he and the other person was thinking and feeling, which builds empathy.

Its hard work though, and hard to hang in there and remember the love, or to keep offering love.

Really interesting to hear everyone's take on the respite thing, for us some days it's the only thing that gets us through the holidays.

Often being together all day is too intense as the teenager is constantly spoiling for a fight with us, but a lot calmer with others. When at his club he doesn't feel he needs to perform and just gets a chance to try out being a regular teen, in a safe place.

Everyone is different though so no right or wrong way to get through the tough years.

Sending them to childcare next week is short term and will be wrought with consequences. What’s your long term plan?

My long term plan? To somehow survive as a family unit. That's it. Although my kids will punish us if we go out for an evening, they aren't too bad when it comes to a childcare setting. They love that place, they do nice things. So although it's short term, it will be what holds us together.

I've worked two days a week for the last year. DH works term time only. We can't do any more part time than that and yep, kids get DLA. Being part time has made me so so miserable.

You went back and had the feelings chat, which is great. Don’t forget the feelings chat goes both ways though, so he could tell you why he slapped and what he was feeling but you also need to tell him (in age appropriate language) how you felt when he hit you and why you slammed the door.

Thank you for your understanding, it makes me feel so much better! Yes, I told him it made me sad etc. He always gets very very upset. It's so hard - I want him to learn but he can sometimes have a meltdown because he knows he has hurt me and can't cope!

I need to look into more clubs for him to burn some of this energy off too. This is the problem with being part time - we can afford to because of DLA but it means we can't afford clubs etc for the kids.

I feel a little better today. It doesn't help that DH has been unwell all week so completely useless! But he is back on track now.

I've worked two days a week for the last year. DH works term time only. We can't do any more part time than that and yep, kids get DLA. Being part time has made me so so miserable

You might find that a really consistent routine of work for you and childcare for him might help, if the setting is right.

My two coped much better knowing that Monday-Friday everyone got up and went to their place, and we all returned home again each night. They needed routine so knowing I was home some days but not others threw them as did knowing some days they were home and other days they were in nursery/school because they didn’t have a sense of time so couldn’t get into a pattern.

We had a calendar in the kitchen colour coded to show school days and weekends and we’d cross each day off so they knew today would be X and tomorrow would by Y. School holidays were tricky because it was a change in routine but it made the school term much easier.

You might find you also have more capacity to cope if you are able to have some adult time doing something that feels productive and worthwhile - you can come back to the kids with a clearer mind and some mental space.

My DD was aggressive and violent with her brother, in the end the only thing that worked was very clear boundaries around hitting. Yes we would talk about what happened and why, but there was also a consequence (which I know isn’t “therapeutic”), so she’d need to stay near me while I was folding laundry or whatever, couldn’t go and play (because I didn’t know she wouldn’t hit), she has hit me once and was disciplined for that. Kids need clear boundaries and those boundaries need to be reinforced, or they aren’t boundaries. Yes they need support to understand their feelings, and they need to know the relationship is solid, they also need to know when they’ve gone too far.

This all sounds really hard and you sound like I did after Christmas when we were all a disaster.currently we are doing really well so I hope it will sway good for you too,feels like it's all ups and downs for us and hope you get an up time too.
I had two thoughts- one is to tag team time away,we've always done this and wonder if it might help you.we have no expectation of an evening out together but we take seperate recharge time with friends or alone,like properly overnight.i always remember Scott carson rennee saying his husband recharges by going to Thailand for 2 weeks alone every year.i liked that idea.i think whatever recharge can work for you aim for it and even if need to.build up slowly to tag team it means the kids are ok but you alternate proper breaks.our relationship time would be a kid friendly thing like softvplay in a pub or lunch when they are at school.maybe tag teaming time off might work (I know you may do this already)
I also thought,although you may do this already too,is our kids have always responded really well to a list of family rules on the wall,which we made together in a positive way,and if any breach of serious rules like hitting,this is clearly there to point at and say look it's on the rules,you've forgotten but that's not allowed is it, consistently every time,we are really strongly definite on anything like hitting or hurts,very much violence is the one battle we pick.i think because it's a written rule (our DD 3 who was learning not to hit can't read it if course but can see it) it's not just us saying it it's an actual physical law.i don't know if family rules on the wall might work for you.
Also yes routine,exact thing every day works beautiful for us, Christmas was disaster with the routine change for us.
And don't feel bad for getting cross,very normal reaction.
And NVR training/ reading if you haven't already?not sure if useful as I imagine you've done that.
And trampoline,also imagine you've got that but if not definitely recommend it.and a swing.and lots of musical bumps and kids disco time,having that as a regular thing in the routine has helped me before,good to have a family reset with some serious favourite music dancing if you have the energy,or musical statues/bumps if you don't.we have a disco ball.and family yoga like cosmic yoga on YouTube's quite good for energy.
There was also a good thread here about sensory circuits which sounded amazing so could out that in your morning routine or just a wake and shake/shake your sillies out start to the day whatever works might be worth trying.and we always have a big run out every day or it would be a disaster.
I think most of this will be what you do already but I hadnt heard if sensory circuits for example so that was really helpful for me so thought I'd put down things that work for us in case it helps.sorry if it doesn't or youve tried it but know how awful it can be and im sure wel be back down in awful time again but hope you get a good time soon!

This is really interesting @tonyhawks23 I’ve been thinking of doing the family rules on the wall thing. Do you impose a consequence if a serious one gets broke, eg if there’s hitting?

We kind of make an issue of it,so like most things we are very tolerant off,the kids all climb around the sofas, eat with hands etc,but violence is not ok,so when violence happens it's like whole family has to stop,whatever is happening it's a boundary that is enforced but I'm not really sure how to explain how,we just do have quite a definite stance and reaction to it. If a child is violent child is removed from the area with parent (in time I guess) game stops,everything stops till we can all take breaths and reset.i think it's the same for safety for us,like if we can't walk safely by a road no chance are we walking anywhere.we just wait.if we are putting electric wires in our mouths all electrics are removed (thrown in bin if im that kind of cross!) so think weve done it that we've agreed our family boundaries in a fair and together way where we have thought about what is important to the family and thats the rules,no arguments it's there in black and white,if someone makes a mistake that's understandable we all make mistakes but they are not ok and it stops everything till we can resolve it.usually involves a resolution of how we can make it ok,a sorry,trying not to be enforced but from their idea.only strict boundaries on the things we need to work to function as a family.think that helps me too as don't go annoyed at them for things I should/could tolerate.a pick your battles kind of thing.im not sure if it's successful and certainly not winning but think our violence is ok.saying that when out of routine at Christmas visiting people etc DD was resorting to biting,so think massively our dependence on routine normality and safety is absolutely key for us.

Eg if we were at soft play and DD hit someone we would leave after one warning,one hit they'd have to sit out with me until ready to continue but if again home time.

And with the biting at Christmas we've decided never to go away at Christmas again it was too much for her! Yet we had previously stopped all playdates as similar anger came from that yet recently reinstated them renamed a party as she understands the structure of a party whereas playdate was too unstructured for her,so it's all an evolving learning curve!

Oo we have the consequence of anything used in violence is permanently removed,eg our DD gave our DS a black eye with a toy pram and that was immediately removed.

Was thinking -,we do it like a re do, a second chance/try that again approach,like not shaming,just learning.and I have a list of phrases taped to the inside of my cupboard that they don't see but reminds me to use them(oh let's try that again,I love being your mum,your amazing at ...etc) positive reinforcement stuff I would forget otherwise being forever tired and all. And we try to make them see the thing they've done wrong/mistake made.and always point out when when we mistakes ( eg the other day,,what happened there mummy...oh dear well mummy got in a fluster with all the shreiking and stalled the car, so what I did was took some breaths and tried again and it was all ok,let's take some breaths together it's so hard when we get in a fluster everything goes wrong doesn't it..)I kind of feel you will be doing this stuff already as I write it out!mostly when I get kicked in the face i get cross I find its impossible not too but sometimes things work!

Amazing that he told you he was angry and sad. Have you tried other ways for him to communicate that?

E.g 'You're angry and sad. I hear you. It's OK to feel like that. Wanna show me how angry?'

Take a pen and do a big scribble 'This angry?'

Give him the pen 'you wanna show me?'

If he scribbles 'wow that's really angry!'

Also can work well with ripping up scrap paper, redirecting hitting to permitted stuff like the sofa cushions. You modelling hitting the sofa in an over the top silly way can be a great diffuser while also making him feel seen.

Sounds really hard. Are you managing to have any silliness or laughter together? Playful Parenting is a great book by psycotherapist Laurence Cohen.

I'm finding I'm setting a poor example too. I'm becoming more reactive. When he slapped me in the face this morning, I stormed off and slammed a door. Which then made him sob. I then took some deep breaths and went back to have the feelings chat so it was repaired but I'm not setting a good example either.

Have you done anything to work on your own regulation and widen your 'window of tolerance'?

I am so sorry this must be very tough.

I am so glad you are protecting your marriage. I love my husband dearly and when things were hard wit hour two kids, one adopted, one birth child, I did wonder if we would be better off living apart to keep the kids apart!

Thankfully, now things are mostly better.

Our adopted son had Theraplay at age 6 and it helped a lot. It was a specific kind of play therapy and it really helped. It was offered by post adoption support.

https://theraplay.org/what-is-theraplay/

"In treatment, the Theraplay Practitioner guides the parent and child through playful, fun games, developmentally challenging activities, and tender, nurturing activities. The very act of engaging each other in this way helps the parent regulate the child's behavior and communicate love, joy, and safety to the child. It helps the child feel secure, cared for, connected and worthy."

I know there are a lot of kinds of play therapy and this is quite specific. It helps to builds bonds between parent and child.

Thank god for this thread. I haven't read all of the posts yet but this is where we are at and we feel so very alone. AS5 and things have suddenly broken down at school. We are doing our best but it is so hard. Only just starting to access support as he has been getting by just about for so long. I'm not sure what has caused this crisis tbh. I'll read through and see what I can glean from everybody's posts ❤️

Hello everyone,

Thought I would update! Gosh I was in a bad place when I wrote this thread. I'm sure I will be back there again but I'm actually trundling along ok at the moment! We've made a few changes that were inspired by this thread. So, just in case it's helpful:

• Time in - we decided what our absolute "drop everything and deal with it" behaviours were. If DS hurt anyone by purposefully hitting etc or throwing a toy at his sister then it was an immediate "time in". This involves him being sat at the kitchen table, timer on, with one of us. If he is relatively calm then we spend the two minutes talking through what happened. If he is throwing an absolute fit (doesn't happen much at the moment) then it's used simply as time to calm down with our help. This has really helped actually. He doesn't hit nearly as much. I've witnessed him run up to hit me and stop mid air. The key was to stay with him though.

• We had some very honest conversations around our marriage and what wasn't working. We came up with some ground rules. Simple things like agreeing that Saturdays were DH lay in days and Sundays are mine. It's a bit better and we are talking more.

• I gave up my toxic part time job to focus entirely on the kids for a short time. I have since secured a full time, remote job which allows me lots of flexibility. I start next month.

These are the main things. I've also upped my anti depressants and that is helping me to keep control.

DS did have a big incident at school the other day where he hurt another child. Other child hit him first and came off worse for it! But I've tried not to spiral downwards.