Daytime wetting

[dadadopt]

Our adopted son has lived with us for just under four months - he's almost 5 and is rarely ever dry during the day.

He's in normal pants (other than training pants for school), completely dry overnight and even wakes up in the night to go to the toilet if he needs a wee. But during the day, he rarely ever takes himself to the toilet and feels like me and my partner are having to constantly remind him to go. If we don't, he'll wet himself and won't tell us that he's done so until we discover the accident in his pants when we get him to try for a wee.

At first we assumed he was voiding as would usually happen when he was engrossed in play/screens but even getting him to go to the toilet before those won't always work. If we ask him if he needs a wee he says 'no' so I've changed tact and tell him simply it's toilet time - he throws tantrums about going and then when he gets to the toilet, he regularly pulls his pants down and stands poised by the toilet but adamantly tells us nothing is going to come out (he does stand up wee's so if nothing comes out we get him to sit), to then 15-20 minutes later find he's had an accident anyway.

When he has an accident we point it out and ask him when he had it and he always acknowledges when it was (ie when I was playing/watching TV) and ask him what he should have done - and he'll usually reply with I should have told you I needed one/stopped what I was doing to go. Then we get him a clean pair of pants/trousers for him to put on and move on. We never get cross at him, shame him or compare him to anyone - I feel we're really patient. He regularly apologises after we discover the accident which we say he doesn't need to do, and we tell him accidents do happen and gently remind him to go to the toilet when he needs to go next time and leave it at that.

We've talked to him about how he can pause whatever he's doing and how only he knows when he needs the toilet so when he gets that feeling in his tummy, he needs to take himself to the toilet. But nothing seems to sink in. We've tried rewarding him with chocolate, setting wee alarms, praising him when he goes and celebrating the dry days, but struggling to get anything to stick. In the early days we put him back to pull ups as he was soiling himself too, but we don't want to go backwards again as that didn't really seem to work either and he finds normal pants comfortable.

I know he's been through a big change moving to his new family, he's just started school properly too recently and wears training pants during the day, but most days they're wet too - which we completely expected.

Being on his case and having to remind him/deal with the tantrums is getting tiring and I'm worried it's rubbing off on him and making him feel anxious about toileting - he clearly resents being told to go. Also concerned that appearing so unbothered by his accidents might be giving him the impression that he can just relieve himself in his pants. Are we doing anything wrong?

It’s very difficult and tbh he may just need to grow out of it - I’m assuming you’ve checked he doesn’t have a uti? Both mine weren’t reliably toilet trained age 4 and 6, lots of support, medical treatment for a persistent uti and just becoming more settled solved things, it just too time more than anything.

Our AS3 (almost 4) has been with us since 9ish months. He's fully toilet trained but every now and again he will wet his pants. If he's anxious, Ill or very busy it's more likely. I just change him, reassure him and move on. No fuss, no apologies etc as we found when we do it's becomes a 'thing'.

Id be tempted to put him in pull ups for now, this isn't going backwards, this is removing the constant occurrences of disrupting your crucial time at building a secure attachment with him which is the only important thing at the moment for him in such early days of placement. I would just focus on attachment parenting and just use any subtle reassurances about toileting like announcing you yourself need a wee and are going to the toilet and let him come with and see what to do.

Other tips are order special child themed soap he will want to use to wash his hands after and funny printed toilet paper (we currently have his special one with emoji poos all over it which he loves to use).

Ok, so practical suggestions first (i loved @ImAMessNess1 funny loo roll!):

-You can get toilet stickers for them to aim at; ours loved "putting the fire out"
-Literal peeing competitions with you (how long, far, fast etc)
-visiting a museum or display that talks about bodily functions and connecting it to his body
-going for "wild wees" at the park or on walks to get used to the process (mine love a wild wee)
-Making dolls or teddies do a wee in the bath, role playing toilet time etc
-letting him see you do a wee, narrating it every time you go etc
-reading books about weeing in the toilet constantly
-observing and narrating animals doing wees outside and making it playful- we talked about animals weeing outside and on the floor, then when we were desperate for a loo stop and had to pull the car over for a quick bush wee, he was outraged and said only animals wee on the floor. Fighting talk for someone who only the week before had peed on himself, me AND his brother as I was changing his pull-up.
-Speaking to nursery about it- could the teacher support you? Also, this is possibly a bit harsh, but if he is able to be dry, is it possible that he may not wet when he is at school because of peer pressure? We found once he realised his friends didn't wear nappies or wee in them, it helped no end.

• making sure he is drinking plenty, playing a game where you drink loads and then time how long it takes for you each to need a wee, get him used to the feeling and trigger etc

-depending on your vibe going back to being naked on the bottom half at home and checking does he still know when he is wetting or has he maybe sort of forgotten?

Other things:

I wonder whether he might be seeking the connection with you? Like its a guaranteed way to have you do something nice and gentle that is predictable every time? He might also like the feeling of being babied and looked after but not be able to explain that.

Wearing pull ups at home might help to reduce your emotions around it. It is easy to feel very frustrated and irritated because it feels like it is done on purpose, which it may well be, but you need to protect your relationship especially this early on. Even if it is regression, it doesn't matter as much as you be able to chill and relax with him. We had to "regress" for about 6 months because of a variety of reasons,and it felt so bad until the SW reminded unit was just a tool to protect our own mental health and relationship with him. It wasn't worth our additional stress and anxiety.

I would suggest the ERIC website, a visit to your go and/or speaking to your health visitor as well for any advice.

You are completely right that such a big change will throw him off, but you need to look after yourself as well- dealing with continual wet laundry, the worry of him wetting himself and remembering yourself is also exhausting! A glass of wine/chocolate/other indulgence is definitely needed!

I want to second all that is being said above. Could you start over with him making in a really exciting experience where you will be doing toilet learning together. If you don't have a reliable account of how this learning happened in the past it might be time to recreate this memory for him making it playful, gentle and supportive for him. Approach it like it is the first time round from him picking new pants, to gentle toilet learning books, fun loo roll and decorating loo steps together with his favourite characters. Sitting down, even for wee's and blowing bubbles or a whistle on the loo can help their body relax. My LO quite liked a bit of silly slap stick comedy in the bathroom (anything to help them relax!) Also have some "I wonder chats." My LO was scared of bathrooms and it transpired it was the sensation of soap on his fingers that was a barrier. We also have "adventure potty" (a ladybird) who comes everywhere with us so their is always a familiar loo when out and about. The ERIC website and nurses are fantastic. Perhsps reframing this as a really positive learning curve that you get to lead them through will help. It's such a stressful thing to experience but my personal journey is that adding fun helped me relax which relaxed him. x

@Torvy these suggestions where so useful for me too. Thank you!

Thanks so much everyone for your really helpful messages - some super useful tips here and it's good to hear other experiences.

We've raised with social workers/health visitors but they don't sound concerned about any health issues, mainly because he wasn't toilet trained until about 10 months ago and his previous foster carer said he just turned a corner overnight after trying lots of different techniques. They say it's expected, is normal and a regression.

We thought we smashed it just before Christmas as we had a string of 'dry days' but then the over stimulation of Christmas followed by the comedown means I don't think we've had one in over a month.

It's tiring being on 'wee watch' constantly and having to try and predict when he needs the toilet (and sometimes getting it wrong!) and the tantrums we have to face when we have to pull him off whatever he's doing. Plus the washing and the smell! Hopefully it's something we can get to the bottom of soon, but perhaps it is just a case of remaining patient.

Would it be worth completely back-tracking for maybe a month or so?

Go back to pull-ups and say to him, 'It all seems a bit much for you right now, I'm making the decision that we'll have a rest from toilet training so we can just concentrate on being together and having fun.'

We had to do that; there were simply too many other things going on and the focus in the first year (or more, depending on the child), needs to be the relationship with you. It could well be that on some subconscious level they are using this to test you - will you get angry and hurt them? Will you reject them and send them back into care? You want to be building trust and attachment, not getting both of you upset and uptight; sometimes a step back and the release of the tension is the answer all by itself. One of mine suddenly became fully dry the day I put them back into pull-ups (a stubborn little mite who didn't like being told what to do), the other stayed back in them for several more months.

If you take time away from toilet training then I wouldn't read any of the books or do any of the brilliant activities suggested above for a good few weeks - your child is highly likely to see through that strategy and if there is any chance of this possibly being about control (And why not? They've lost so much, so much has changed and they've had no control over any of that!) then the battle will really kick off.

Once you've all had a break, maybe introduce some of the fun activities - but without any pressure or expectation of them joining in. Daddy gets all the fun weeing at the targets, Daddy earns a chocolate for every wee in the toilet... you may well find him suddenly joining in if the pressure if off?

One thing that did make a big difference here was being told by the incontinence clinic that we should only ever give drinks as a full glass; not to allow wandering off and coming back to the same drink over a period of time and not to allow a constant sipping of water through water bottles with straws etc. This was based on the theory that constant sips or small amounts of liquid entering the bladder not only made it a bit 'twitchy' and therefore liable to leak easily, but also that learning to properly recognise the feeling of your bladder being full was much easier if it was filled in one go. Might sound odd - but it worked brilliantly for us.

I hope you have some success soon - the endless washing of child and clothes is exhausting!