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Adoption

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

Apologies for clumsy wording. are additional needs/neurodivergence inevitable in adopted children?

16 replies

Groundhoghcg · 31/10/2023 10:05

We are starting to research adoption after 6 miscarriages. I have a 4yo BC. I find myself flip flopping massively. I know no one has a crystal ball but its helpful to name what I'm thinking at least.

My sister has very severe autism and as much as I love her growing up was bloody hard. She is still in my life, living in full time care locally. I see her regularly and as a family we take her on holiday each year, days out and have her every Xmas etc. I have no cousins/other siblings so when she is older care decisions will pass to me. My DC also has no cousins so I feel worried about burdening her.

I desperately want another child and believe my DC would love a sibling but I do feel so worried about disrupting her childhood and burdening her in her adult life.

I've been looking at fostering to adopt, I understand that there is a risk to me but this feels like the best thing for the child and perhaps would help to limit trauma (and trauma behaviours). But I am worried about the potential for damage from substances in the womb and genetic factors. Are there any published research on the outcomes for adopted children? Is it possible to not face massive challenges?

OP posts:
Ted27 · 31/10/2023 10:46

Hi @Groundhoghcg

Im very sorry for your losses, that must be very hard for you.

Your worries about adoption are entirely normal and reasonable and there is nothing wrong in articulating those fears.

Roughly a third of adoptions will have no significant issues, a third will have very significant issues of which some will lead to breakdown of the adoption. The rest will be like me, more up and down, periods of stability, with very challenging times inbetween.
Of course, the risk is you will not know which third you will be in.

The age of the child at adoption is an interesting factor. I know dozens of adopters who adopted very young children or babies and who have significant issues. I adopted a so called ‘hard to place ‘ child at 8 years old. Whilst not without issues, compared to some of my friends kids he has been s bit of a dream.
He has ASD, a learning difficulty, possibly dyspraxia and pretty sure there will have been some impact from alcohol. He is also a happy and healthy 19 year old. He has been through college, learnt to drive, got a car, been working since he was 14, and went off to university in September.
I know dozens of adopted young people his age, none without problems or issues, they are all growing up and doing their own thing - college, uni, apprenticeships, working. It takes some of our children longer, but most of them have good lives. There will always be challenges, they may need more support than other children and young adults but most adoptive families are just getting on with their lives.

Lwrenagain · 31/10/2023 10:55

Hi! Now I'm not an adopter but I did try and I have neurospicy kiddos and one is quite severe, so because we've already provisions in place for them and a long term plan etc, we were happy to have had an SEN child but one of the things we were and I'll be honest, the word is repeatedly "warned" about was the likelihood of a specialist education needing child.
Now reading on this board, adoption uk, following lots of adopters a huge majority of adopted children do have SEN, lots have adhd/asd and many others are riddled with trauma and struggle with regulation.
If you're thinking this is something you'll be able to deal with, then no harm in a bit more research at all.
Unfortunately it is a crystal ball situation, my severely asd son had no telling signs (and our background is working with special needs/autism, in both adults and children) until he reached about 2, then he asd'd right up! The more neurospicy had more signs from baby's they were ND.
But you'll not escape trauma, even if your baby is with you from birth, you'll inevitably have a child that's dealing with some trauma and that can manifest in similar behaviour to asd.
I know pregnancy and having birth children is a risk for genetic factors, nothing ever comes with a guarantee, but you'll limit things such as fasd by not drinking, something a birth mum may not be able to do sadly.
I would have a watch of nyree squires channel, "fly little birds" on YouTube, she covers this topic quite a bit and has birth and adopted DC so she's definitely worth a listen.
I'd also have a read of the A-Z of therapeutic parenting from Sarah Naiche and the Primal.Wound by Nancy Vetiver. Neither books are a long read and I liked knowing what type of parenting style I'd have to adapt mine to if I was going to be a successful adopter, it was very useful to gain a small bit of knowledge about ways to combat trauma behaviour and ND/fads should I need it.
I think having a read and listen of others experiences (and this board has my fave posters, they're really kind and full of wisdom) is an ideal place to start.

Good luck with whatever you decide and if you want any ideas for YouTube videos or some podcast/blogs/books/TV shows, tag or PM me and I'll help if I can x

Lwrenagain · 31/10/2023 10:58

@Groundhoghcg ah I'm sorry, I just saw you had losses, that's absolutely awful and I'm really sorry! I read you post with my dog sat on my head because she's struggling still from last nights local tossers letting off fireworks all night.

I'm very sorry you've gone through that 💐

Groundhoghcg · 31/10/2023 11:25

@Lwrenagain love the term neurospicey 😀no need to apologise, we are super aware that I absolutely have my own genetic baggage (my DM is also autistic) and tbh I do find it slightly perversely funny that I might be worried about the genetic risk from a BM when my genes are definitely on the spicey side too. I'll keep doing my research.

@Ted27 thank you for this, you must be so proud of your son.

3 x 3rds is a helpful number to hold in mind. Understandly it does seem hard to find concrete numbers, and I am the sort of person who needs numbers! Do you think there is anything in more challenge for adopting a younger DC or is it that it's a dice roll? I naively though secure early attachment = less trauma but clearly I need to keep reading

OP posts:
Bethebest · 31/10/2023 12:33

I did foster to adopt from birth and dc is now 8. He has been a pleasure to parent so far and is an absolute delight. Things may change in the future and more difficulties may come with the teenage years I know.

I always planned to adopt two and was approached about a sibling who would again be placed at birth. I chose not to after a lot of soul searching as I was so worried about the impact on my son. Of all of our friends who adopted through FTA, my son has the least difficulties. Many of their children have huge complexities that couldn’t be picked up at birth. They love their children deeply but life is very hard at times.

I would also advise against FTA with a child already as the uncertainty is very difficulty for adults let alone a young child.

Ted27 · 31/10/2023 14:17

@Groundhoghcg

the age of adoption is a really interesting thing, many people would tell you to run a mile from an older child. Its worked out fine for us. I know numerous families who adopted the so called perfect healthy baby and ended up in exactly the same place as I did, and many of them with more challenging children.
you dont know if a baby has autism, or adhd of FASD - that doesnt become apparent until later.
what happens in utero can have enormous impact later on after birth.

My son came with a set of diagnosis, an EHCP all in place, his needs were known in a way that I could never have seen if he had been younger.
many families also sail through the early years and hit problems in the teens. The teenage years are difficult enough as you try to establish your identitity - throw in another family, the birth family who they might want to contact, the result can be very destabilising for many young people.

Yes I am super proud of my son, he is doing great. But there is always a sadness for him. He has several siblings, none of them doing as well as he is. He worries about them, he worries about his birth mum and dad. He has accepted for what they are. But it still grieves him. He will carry that for the rest of his life, its what drives him, mostly in a positive way, to get an education and a good job. He desparately wants to create his own family unit and break that cycle. But I also see in him a fear that he might end up like they did.
Being an adoptee does not define my son, there is so much more to him, but it is a huge part of who he is.

onlytherain · 31/10/2023 17:45

I am very sorry about your losses.

I wonder about the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 statistics which is so often quoted. Was that a longitudinal study? We have gone from very few issues to more challenging to very severe issues. Mine were older at placement (5+) though, had a lot of risk factors and we have been unlucky in some ways (eg. bullying leading to additional trauma). I agree with @Ted27, it is a gamble and most of the families I know who adopted little ones struggle with similar stuff to us. I don't think age makes much difference, though the Selwyn report says something else (they did not analyse reasons for breakdowns though).

Have a look at the Adoption Barometer https://www.adoptionuk.org/the-adoption-barometer. Also look at the once of previous years with different focus topics. If you want to get more of a feel for what it might be like, I would read Sally Donovan's No Matter What, Dan Hughes' Building the Bonds of Attachment and The Adoption Experience.

Lwrenagain · 01/11/2023 08:28

I really hope I don't annoy the adopters by sticking around here but I noticed the Selwyn report got mentioned, I read that and listened to a interview she did, (Julie Selwyn if you fancy a google) and its alot about adopting with birth children and its definitely worth reading. Lots of social workers I spoke to were very much playing it down and saying "those struggling shout louder", which of course they do, they need seeing/help, but it's definitely really worth understanding the level of changes that your DC will have to endure and what the worst case scenarios could be.
I've had SGO/foster kids placed with us over the years and it's been successful, however these kids we known from Birth in all cases, so totally different kettle of fish to adopting a stranger so I felt like reading the good/bad was important so I didn't go into it with as much naivety as I perhaps would have based off those positive experiences.
Some truly kind and incredible adopters with birth children really were able to give me lots of insight also which was massively, massively appreciated.
This is only a personal opinion and it may be deeply unpopular but there are some absolutely wonderfully positive adoption stories on YouTube, which are heartwarming and beautiful and do an excellent job at showing a positive side towards adoption when there is a lot of negativity out there and these stories are important to hear about. But there is a but, these children are still very young, many of the challenges adopters face don't manifest until the child is of teen years, so whilst I hope these families remain as beautifully calm and peaceful and loving as they are, I think it's important to remember these families are still in their infancy, what's all rainbows now could be shitstorms later on.
(I say this to not be negative, however one of the many social workers directed me to these videos and said they were the ones to watch, however they are useful yes, but also only the early chapters so bare that in mind) x

Catleveltired · 01/11/2023 11:23

I think something extra is inevitable. Adoption only happens in sub-optimal circumstances. Legally, in the uk, it's the last resort for a child, after all other options have been thought through. Statistically, it's likely there will be difficulties somewhere. I think that in those with no difficulties, maybe it's where the extra is so routine, and early on, they don't realise it's extra?

However, that doesn't make it unrelenting, unrewarding, or unmanageable. It makes it different, it makes it extra- "parenting plus."

Uncertainty in the "healthy baby" can be huge, and yet you have the chance there to set early foundations of attachment and reduce multiple traumas. For an older child, you can be better prepared, and know what you're facing together- but the unexpected can always arise!

Asking these questions is normal, and shouldn't cause offence. Going in blindly optimistic isn't good for you or a child. Going in realistically optimistic is best, imo!

I love my children. They have their challenges. But they're mine, and I love them, and the extra is worth it. They deserve extra.

Catleveltired · 01/11/2023 11:28

What I would suggest in your circumstances is that you have a lot of time. Big age gaps are often better in adoption, and I would suggest that if severe autism isn't a risk you don't want, you can consider a child of three plus showing no signs so far. It's ok to say what you can and can't manage.

I would also never advise having a child for your current child. Only have a child because YOU want one. Siblings may be close, or they may not, by birth or adoption. Siblings are not always friends.

WittyUsername123 · 01/11/2023 20:29

Not to repeat the views of above posters, but I would echo the sentiment that there will be something ‘additional’ at some point. This will probably not be the universal experience for everyone posting here though!

A couple of thoughts:

FTA, whether with babies or older children (I am seeing more and more of my contemporaries in other adoption communities doing FTA for toddlers too) comes with a significant chance the child will return to birth family. For example, my friends who did FTA for a 3YO could not (correctly) have him call them mum and dad for about 6 months because they were his foster carers at that point. Such uncertainty would be very hard on BC.

You can’t tell if a baby has needs, but even a slightly older baby/toddler who is said to be ‘meeting milestones’ may actually not be. In my experience, LAC medicals are not worth the paper they are printed on and a lot is judged on FC opinions. For example, I was rushing my younger LO to urgent care within a week of placement for a serious ailment his FC said was ‘nothing’. He is now awaiting surgery for this.

You shouldn’t underestimate the impact of genetics and in-utero trauma on a baby. The situation must have been quite florid to result in FTA, which suggests significant in-utero trauma.

For an older child, I’d advise it has a lot to do with the consistency and quality of care, and the number of moves in care, that have a lot to do with trauma. Again though, this is hard to judge. It wasn’t until my older son was placed that we became aware that significant concerns had been raised about the quality of some of his foster care, and this has impacted him.

To summarise, I would advise that there is risk attached which cannot be fully mitigated or avoided. This is something to wrestle with, and only you can really know what will work for your family.

snowleopard33 · 26/12/2023 18:12

@onlytherain the 1/3 1/3 1/3 study is called 'Beyond the Adoption Order'. Not a longitudinal study - they surveyed 390 families and asked how things were going at that point in time. Pages 84 onwards are the interesting ones (but the whole document is a good read):

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a74b507e5274a3f93b4825b/Final_Report_-_3rd_April_2014v2.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a74b507e5274a3f93b4825b/Final_Report_-_3rd_April_2014v2.pdf

Torvy · 26/12/2023 22:06

I guess it sort of depends on what you perceived to be "massive challenges". Yes, lots of adopted kids have trauma related issues, and trauma is a weird thing that impacts each child in different ways. But you sound like you might be familiar with the concept of advocacy for a vulnerable person, unafraid of using your knowledge of institutions to ensure the best care for your sister and willing to explore different options for care, all of which could be useful.

That being said, adoption is hard. Ours was considered a "tricky" placement, and the fact that they were siblings multiplied this several times over. Not to go into too much detail, but it involved introducing the two of them to each other when they were older, not as one child and one baby. It was more difficult because they had the capacity to irritate each other and be aggressive to one another in a way that a baby couldn't, and although you don't think you blame one rather than the other, when you are on your knees with tiredness and at the very end of your tether, it is very hard not to wish very very hard that one would just for once stop hitting the other one... and also that the other would stop hitting back.

You have to be very sure that your BC can cope with what could be or become a tempestuous relationship, and the sharing of your attention. Also, it is easy to have an idealised version of siblinghood as someone to be united with, to suffer the slings and arrows of life with, but there is no guarantee they will like each other, or not resent each other, and as their mother you need to be able to sit with those feelings and support them both with it without taking sides. I can imagine it would be tricky for you to hear BC potentially feeling like they blame you for upending their life (not that this will necessarily happen) but you have to create the environment where they could speak to you about it just the same.

As an exercise, you could also consider whether you might begin to rule out adopting certain children based on sibling status or complexities- for example, would you consider adopting a child who was the 7th or 8th child and had other full biological siblings? Why or why not? How would you support contact if appropriate? Would you want BC to come with you if you met? Why or why not? Would you adopt from a younger BM knowing they they might have other birth siblings later on? Would you tell your AC? Would you tell your BC? At the same time? What if AC didn't want BC to know because it felt too private and raw? Would you adopt a child whose older siblings had ADHD and were placed with biological grandparents? Would you know what to look out for if you knew BM had "drunk a bit" during pregnancy? What if she had with other pregnancies but swesrs she didnt with this one? Although this may seem very specific, discussing these possible situations and what you would deem to be "acceptable " risk might help you feel clearer about what you can and cannot handle, and there is no shame in being very clear about that.

Also, think about your worst, busiest typical day, and your capacity and how you would parent on that day. Then look through these boards for some indication of the types of ways that trauma manifests itself and think whether you could parent theraputically on one of those days. I hope I'm not being condescending, but trauma isnt convenient or weeping silently at bedtime. Lots of the time it is noisy and angry and making strange noises or growling at guests at a party. Many of my posts have detailed the weird ways trauma has manifested- we don't wear heavy shoes on long car journeys because we throw them, one of ours ate a tube of pringles for Christmas dinner, one refuses to talk at nursery.... nothing on its own that is completely unmanageable, but wrestling a hungry screaming toddler with a biting incident report in one hand, clothing he has deliberately peed on in another, into a car seat after he hasn't said a word at nursery all day only to set off and have him lobbing his trainers at your head is genuinely difficult to handle. All trauma, but a far cry from an easily soothed sad child may people picture when adopting

All that sounds very negative, and it isn't meant to be, but it's important to be realistic. Your own mental health can take an absolute battering, and if you have other caring responsibilities I can imagine it would be almost completely overwhelming. I was as free as a bird apart from owning a cat, but over the last year lots of other stuff just faded into the background. It had to so that I could care for the kids who needed me so much, but if you have other stuff you have to prioritise it can be very hard to balance.

I would say that our journey has been, as many others have said, a rollercoaster. Our kids are neurodivergent, its unclear whether thats trauma related or not, but the parenting strategies at their ages are relatively similar. Some months are good, some are bad. We are weathering them all out one way or another. We love our two little chicken nuggets beyond all belief, and yes, their neurodivergence makes some of the stuff they do a bit weird and wacky, but it also makes them absolutely hilarious and clever beyond all measure. If you have neurodivergence in the family it may well be that they slot right on in. For example, for some funny old reason, our whole family has benefitted from the use of visual timetables, ear defenders and weighted blankets, not just the kids.

It is not an easy choice, OP, but do your research, find out more and try to go beyond the surface ideas and into the specifics. There are loads of people on these boards and on Insta who give a very honest and real life understanding of what modern adoption might entail. It is by no means all doom and gloom, but it isn't a bed of roses either, and genuinely thinking about what you, your BC and your family unit can handle or want to achieve will be super important going forward.

teekay88 · 28/12/2023 20:32

Hi there. Please never apologise on these forums for airing your worries and concerns. As other posters have said, it's an entirely reasonable and grounded thought process and one it will benefit you in the long term to have put considerable thought into before rushing into any decisions.

I think what another poster has said about the distribution of a third severe, a third smooth and a third somewhere in middle issues chimes with the reality of the adopters I know in my life.

I adopted a little boy at 13m from a stable and loving foster family with very little disruption to his early care but whose birth mother did have a v difficult pregnancy with self neglect, domestic abuse and substance use present. Our honest reality is still that it's the best decision we ever made and we went into it with our eyes as open as possible and I think a very realistic attitude but there have certainly been challenges and hard times along the way that nevertheless were unexpected.

My little boy has displayed behavioural and emotional regulation issues since he was about 18m. It became apparent around 6m into placement that he would not be plain sailing however not as severe issues as I know others have experienced. We have had to really advocate for him particularly in educational settings and it's especially difficult when behaviours are linked to trauma and adoption background which are very little understood by most professionals and education settings especially in relation to things like autism and identified specific learning disabilities. Because he has no diagnosis (yet) we have had battles to get his additional needs recognised and for his behaviours not to be labelled as naughty or "poor choices" (unfortunate language still used in schools and nurseries - sadly behavioural management policies have not progressed anywhere near as much as we'd have expected in the years since we went to school in the 90s). We sadly feel at 5yo despite our best efforts to provide a safe space for him at home and having engaged in a lot of support from a parenting perspective, he has still internalised this view of himself due to adults around him

We're in a better place in the last year but we have had to radically shift our parenting approach against popular wisdom, really practice our own resilience and educate others a lot. From a young age he has had severe age inappropriate tantrums/meltdowns (still ongoing). He has quite a lot of hyperactivity and struggles with impulse control and still operates emotionally more like a toddler. He is needing much more support at school than we anticipated given that he has always hit his developmental/academic milestones. That said support we have received through adoption channels has been a game changer. There is a lot of support out there in this community and it's also important to remember that things always feel worse "on paper" in terms of you wondering whether you can cope with an issue versus what it's actually like when they are actually your child, it's all you know, and you have bonded with them

Despite our challenges he is a lovely, well adjusted kind and socially/emotionally astute little boy who is incredibly affectionate and I think (hope) happy in his life with us. There are bad days but the good days are so rewarding.

Only you will know what's right for you but please try not to get too put off by horror stories. The vast majority of adoptive families I know have to be much more resilient and patient in their parenting and do have to advocate a lot BUT manage to live a relatively "normal" (whatever that means) family life xxx

Italiangreyhound · 07/01/2024 23:49

I am so sorry about your losses.

I can honestly say that our adopted son has not been as much 'trouble' as our birth child (who is on the spectrum) but I adore them both and they are worth it.

I think you do just need to be very clear with social services about what level of expected difficulties you feel you can manage, and what you cannot. It's no guarantee but it does help to be clear.

Our son was three, nearly four, when he came to us. There might be some people who feel adopting a younger child means less likely problems later, that may be so in some cases but certainly not in all. I did feel with our child that we had a clear idea of who they were when we adopted.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

clattuc · 08/01/2024 10:54

Probably just echoing what others have already said, but yes I was surprised how much more prevalent neurodiversity is in adopted children compared to their non-adopted peers. I think the latest hypothesis is that these conditions may actually be trauma-related things caused by PTSD rather than 'classic' genetic autism or ADHD etc. It is just that the symptoms can be similar and need to be dealt with in the same way, with things like sensory integration therapy and EMDR etc - which do help. The trouble is when all those things manifest at different times - it is a bit whack-a-mole really and difficult to know where to start sometimes. Once you think you've helped them with something you realise it was just masking something else. :-)

It is those important early-years again - if the brain isn't allowed to develop 'normally', which it won't be able to in these kind of cases, then all kinds of difficulties will start to manifest, both psychological and physical.

If a child is being placed for adoption from birth - which is very rare nowadays - then something is likely to have been very wrong with the environment of the home during the birth mum's pregnancy. This would have undoubtedly created massive stress for her, and therefore the unborn baby. Alcohol/drugs are just the tip of the iceberg in that situation really. Can't say I've met many adopters who adopted from birth, but the 1 or 2 I have met have not seen any difference than those of us who adopted older kids in terms of neurodiversity.

I think generally adopted children have better outcomes than care-leavers, similar to the general population, but it may take a few years longer than the general population to get there.

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