Advice on sons behaviour

[ASDADDY]

AS is 3.5 and been with us since 10months old. Very attached and this has been developing well over the years. He's always been 'hard' work compared to other children his age i.e. I put way more thought in to how to lead him through life than my friends seem to with their kids, treading lightly with change and ensuring were therapeutic where possible etc etc. However since he's turned 3 his behaviour seems to be so volatile. One minute he's loving and so much fun.. the next he's angry, shouty and basically out of control. I'm finding I'm removing him from situations alot now and getting to a point where only I seem to be able to keep him more level. Husband seems not to understand how to do this and gets very frustrated with the behaviour.
No signs as yet of learning needs etc but how do adopted parents know what is just normal 'threenager' behaviour and what is due to adoption? At what point do you think we need to intervene with help here?
I can just about pick him and move him now but worried whats going to happen in a few years time.if this isn't just a phase.

Op, I’m sure someone will be along who knows much more than me shortly, but I didn’t want to read and run. I’m not an adoptive parent, but an adoptee (suffered early trauma) and have a son who is in the process of an adhd diagnosis (both dh and I have it) and dd who’s too young to assess yet. I would say, you know the effects of early trauma on the brain and that in many ways it can present like adhd because the impulse control can be damaged and the amygdala can be hyperactive, meaning fight/flight/freeze kicks in quickly. I think there’s always a tricky line between what is typical and what stems from adoption, partly because trauma can come out similarly to many neurodiversities and partly because many adopted children also have neurodiversity and this might be a reason their birth parents struggled.

I think my approach would be to break down which situations he’s really struggling with and perhaps initially reduce them. Look at whether there are simple things that make a big difference (near snack or meal times Or after intense activity, so hungry or struggling with sleep so tired). My ds’ behaviour hugely escalates when tired and it’s impossible to have a ‘normal’ day or do activities the way you normally would. You may well have done this already but thought I’d suggest as things can be tricky in the moment. Think about whether he feels better after letting it out or worse, does he need that release? I knew someone who had a little area of cushions where their adopted LO could go and tantrum in peace with the parent in the room but not engaging and then they’d offer a hug after. Can intensity be reduced in situations? Eg. a few hours at a place rather than a day, a friend over to play rather than a friend and their siblings etc.

I do think it sounds like your DH needs to find some ways of supporting you both in the moment and find some ways to deescalating the moment with your LO himself. You must be utterly knackered! How is he finding the therapeutic parenting strategies? I’d say even with normal threenager behaviour it helps to find ways to calm that behaviour and intervene, especially if it’s really frequent and disrupting the day. I think see if both of you implementing the same strategies together works well and if there are similarities between situations he struggles with, and then move on to asking for extra help if this just doesn’t work. I do think adopted children can often sense if one parent feels unsure and that can be unsettling, so sometimes that united front can really make a difference. I’m sure adoptive parents will come along with much better suited advice in a minute though 😊

Does he go to preschool/nursery? Socially it would be a good idea for him to go if he doesn't already. If he does how do they find his behaviour? I would talk to them about it and see if they think his behaviour is typical for a three year old or not as they will obviously have a lot of experience.

@ChaosAndCrumbs Thanks, great advice. Think I sometimes get in to the throws of it so often I forget to actually reflect on it. There are some things that set him off like asking him to do anything he doesn't want to do... tiredness has always been a factor but he has never been a good sleeper. I'm very well read on adoption/trauma/TP and the principles of F-F-F. I think the default to fight is what's changed more recently.

@itsmyp4rty he has attended nursery for about 14 months. Loves nursery and he does well there as thrives on routine. Behaviour is usually typical but they struggle to realise he literally combusts at home after.

He's the sweetest boy and we're having a good day today so far but I feel like I'm walking on eggshells atm. Trying to keep him on track and regulated.

We are in a similar situation, we have adopted 2 young girls, now 2.5 and 3.5, the older gets very angry for no reason especially after coming home from school, we have looked into it and feel its she is on best behaviour in school and when the come home they feel safe enough to let their emotions out, so take it as a positive if the outburst are after school/nursery

How’s your little one getting on @ASDADDY? We definitely have the not doing anything he wants to do issue. It’s definitely known that children can explode after keeping it all in and working so hard to keep to rules all day. I wondered if there was anything that could be added to the routine that helps him regulate and maybe has a sensory calming element? Something like being pushed on a swing or always reading a favourite book snuggling on your lap or dancing together? Something where he’s reconnecting with you, but getting a sensory input that he finds helpful?

Not sure if the token system is ok to use for adopted children, but was thinking this morning about your LO finding it hard to follow requests and wondered if it could be tailored to help? It’s a reward system (not a punishment one), aimed at children who seek extra dopamine and need instant rewards. I know reward systems don’t always work with children who’ve experienced trauma, but with this one never take tokens away, only add them, so there’s no shame involved. It’s only about rewarding the positive and aiming ‘to do’ rather than ‘not to do’.

You pick usually 3 behaviours that you want to work on (can reduce if too many) and the child gets a token for showing that behaviour. Once they have X number of tokens, they can choose a toy or trip out or similar (you get them to pick before you start). We also use mini goals with it, so at certain numbers the child can pick a mini prize like choosing which dinner to have on Friday or a film for a film night. We use wooden counters in a painted jam jar. Our behaviours were ‘doing things the first time you’re asked to’ and ‘doing school reading’. It might not be a concept your LO is ready for yet or be something that quite works depending on the trauma and expression this has in your child, but I thought I mention it in case you thought it suited as it gives you the chance to reward behaviour there and then and because you’re looking out for it, you automatically praise them more in moments that can sometimes be missed.

The last thing would be if you think he’s struggling to hold routines in his head and then that causes meltdowns (because he thinks something else is coming up next so won’t comply with the next activity), a magnetic schedule might help. I had a visual one for my son around that age and it really helped show him what was coming for that day and he could then point and say ‘it’s cleaning my teeth’ or ‘it’s going to the park’.

Gosh, sorry, what an essay!

@ChaosAndCrumbs were having a much better week this week. Last week was awful, like really bad. He wasn't coping at nursery and they asked for a meeting Monday morning which I went to and gave them a good education on why he is not coping and what they can do to support him. They were really onboard.
However it's like somethings clicked back in to place and this week he has been much calmer, listening and being kind to to us and his friends and nursery. Star chart has been really helpful and generally we are in a better place from where we were a few weeks ago. I think I need to work on my own resilience as I was spiralling. I think hearing another's opinion on my sons behaviour made me feel really defensive of him and I went back to taking control of the situation if that makes sense?!
Thanks for some of your tips will be trying some of those!

@ASDADDY it sounds like you are doing an absolutely brilliant job of being your child’s best advocate - and no doubt that is why you were matched as the best possible parent/s. I’m 15 years in (single adopter and two non-birth related children) and I personally think that the biggest quality we all have here is that we have learned to become the forensic experts into our respective children’s behaviours. And, unfortunately, we also have to become the educators to inform those who really ought to be better informed about trauma-related behaviours. On an emotional level, I think sometimes that however hard it is to hear perceived criticism of our children’s behaviour, it’s a great reminder of the bond/attachment we have formed, that we feel so defensive that we would fight to the death for them!

On a practical level, can you involve your Virtual School? They will have an Early Years teacher and they have a legal duty towards previously looked after children. There is a fantastic and very readable AUK resource that is designed for children’s settings so I will try to find the link and post the document here. Your regional adoption agency should have someone responsible for education so I would contact them and potentially ask about training for the setting? I find that my children’s behaviours spiral when they are over-tired, overwhelmed and their health is below par.

Also, three-year-olds, regardless of their birth histories, can be dicks! But once you factor in adoption, everyone in education settings wants to attribute normal three-year-old behaviour to because ‘adoption’ and not because ‘three’. Also, as adoptive parents, we can be programmed to worry that everything is because of adoption and not because of age-related behaviours.

@ChaosAndCrumbs

@ChaosAndCrumbs sorry didn't mean to randomly tag you there 😅
@BrontëParsonage thanks for this. I think I may need to learn more about the virtual school as I think I will definitely need there support next September when he starts school. I found it quite enlightening speaking with the nursery staff who don't understand attachment disorders, trauma etc. They were quite focussed on autism and ADHD and I had to explain that attachment disorder behaviours can present like adhd. They are senior very experienced nursery staff too and it's clear they haven't had the training.

@ASDADDY I could have written this! Honestly I don't know whether it is possible to work out which bits are trauma and which bits are threenager, but I do know that what I experience is that his behaviour is that bit more extreme, that bit louder, that bit harder to manage than his typical peers. It is bloody hard work, and ceaseless, which I find myself explaining to people because he can be so lovely and is infinitely loveable lots and lots of the time. It's only when I write down everything that happens in a day that I begin to realise the severity of the behaviour. I would strongly recommend keepinga diary of a typical day or week to take with you to meetings.

Nursery staff will probably not know much about trauma, very few school staff really do unfortunately. I found the Coventry grid a helpful document to share. It shows the differences between asd and developmental trauma.

Someone once told me not to allow myself to become the only expert in my child, and sometimes you do need to just let you other people make their own mistakes and forge their own relationship too. It can be difficult to step back, but sometimes very very necessary. Also, if your partner is frustrated, that's OK. He is allowed to be frustrated, but it doesn't mean he gets a pass out of dealing with the behaviour. It means he deals with it and is frustrated, which you can explore later, but for both of your sakes, you both need to deal with stuff in a way that feels equitable and fair.

In terms of strategies, it is worth tracking any changes and getting on a road to get help ASAP, and to be honest if they are suggesting adhd and asd amd are willing to refer you to get that help, i might be inclined to "accept" it and then use that referral to speak to someone who knows their stuff, rule those things out and then those professionals will be able to refer you on to someone else who can deal with it. I always reckon an Ed psych is more likely to be more knowledgeable about trauma and have better resources than a classroom teacher, so whatever gets us in closer contact with to those professionals is worth doing. We have started down some routes to try and get a diagnosis or help now because although his (AS 3, nearly 4) behaviour is just about manageable, it won't be if it continues, and so it is worth looking up stuff now because lists are long and things can change rapidly. You want to be able to say you have already ruled stuff out.

You sound like you are doing an awesome job. It's bloody hard, and there are so many conflicting emotions going on. I suspect getting your partner on board will be crucial, if only to stop you being the default parent and having to take responsibility for what can feel like a mammoth task.

Really glad things clicked back into place and you managed to educate nursery around it! Resilience can be so tough when you’re tired and in the throws of it. I think it’s great you felt defensive and have often drawn on that feeling myself to give me the drive to tackle situations. The Thrive Approach could be worth mentioning to the Nursery (and school in future). It costs money for a staff member to do a course with them, but they run them for early years settings and have some resources available on their website. I think as much support as you can access early on can be helpful as you as parents can feel supported and have more to draw on too. I think the virtual school suggestion is brilliant too. I’ve honestly found nurseries and schools tend to have limited understanding even around ASD and ADHD, let alone trauma or attachment expression, but I think the more parents that educate them the better as they can carry that knowledge forward.

So much to think about. Adoption is so complex isn't it, it's no wonder so many adopters struggle as it just feels relentless at times. Friends with birth children just never 'get it' I love that they try to sympathise but I really understand now what our SW told us when we were going through the process that adoption is parenting plus. You will go through the same things as other parents but there will always be that bit more you have to do, consider, reflect on etc and it's very true.
@Torvy I'm really considering getting help now even though I think he is coping with nursery. As you say it's likely to be needed later and id rather already be in the system. How did you start getting help? Who did you go to? Health visitor or post adoption etc ?

@ASDADDY here is the link to the publication I mentioned that is a brilliant resource for all educators.

https://www.adoptionuk.org/lets-learn-together-ni

@ASDADDY A combination- the LAC/PLAC health visitor make a load of referrals, then we doubled down and went to the gp where we let him be his truest self and got an immediate referral to comm paeds because he managed in the 5 minute conversation with the gp to find not only the bin, medical waste and spare scalpels, but also attempted to climb up on the windowsill and get out the door. "Yes, yes, I can see the hyperactivity".😂

We also got post adoption support involved to start assessments, because that adds some clout to what we ask nursery to do. They might have some ideas for specific therapy ideas for stuff for sensory integration, for example, or trauma informed therapy stuff that other people may not be able to do.

Nursery are cced into everything, even though they didn't see any issues because it means they know for future when and if it starts spilling over into nursery. Plus they can make referrals too if they are so inclined.

We also access support from our local children's centre, who are good at seeing the holistic picture, and have connections with CAMHS and stuff. I would 100% recommend.

Basically, I would be speaking to as many people as possible, because nearly a year into placement very few of these have actually come to fruition yet, we are still in the assessment phases for lots of them, and expect to be for quite a while, by which point his behaviour may well be better but actually may well not be. Lots of irons in lots of fires means we can keep the process moving, or that's our idea anyway!

Just wanted to second the advice Torvy gave there - push on all the doors you can to get help and support in place. Some of those doors might take years to actually open and offer anything, but the sooner you start the process the better! I didn’t approach post adoption for an ASF assessment of need until about 3 years in, I think because I felt on some level they would think I was saying I couldn’t cope with my boy and judge me, but I wish I had gone earlier - a sensory integration assessment was the best thing we had from that initially. I had picked up on a lot of things already but it added weight when I was trying to get his needs met at nursery etc to have professional report that explained it. DS is now 9 and has very complex needs and it is still a constant battle to get the right support that he is entitled to from health, education and social care, but he’s also an amazing boy 😍