Struggling with DH situation

[Suchabigsleepyhead]

4 year old AD has been with us nearly 2 years. She's amazing and there are so many positives. Don't get me wrong she is also 4 so comes with her moments. The problem is DH.
I think in reality DH has post adoption depression. He is struggling with how much life has changed and the full on ness of having a kid.
He can be great with her and they do have lovely moments. I struggle that he doesn't make a lot of effort to spend time with her, is not comfortable to even take her out unless I am also there, and not really up for much of what she wants to do. He also finds therapeutic parenting hard, well as do we all at times, but it works with her, you get firmer or tell her off, she digs her heels in further and escalates. He says something and just expects her to do it, straight away, every time. We parent differently and I'm trying to get used to that and I do get frustrated at what I feel is his lack of effort. He gets annoyed she doesn't do things for him that she does for me or she makes a fuss cos he's doing something when 90% of the time I do it so the change throws her. He doesn't seem to understand if he made more effort it would actually be easier, she also won't be wanting his attention so much as she gets it more regularly and it annoys me he thinks all the effort I've put into our attachment will just somehow rub off on his with her!! He is trying some things to help himself out of his lows so hopefully it helps him feel better.
I feel sad for AD though, like she will feel like he's rejecting her by not wanting to do stuff most of the time. I also feel so tired that I get no time for self care as he's 'already struggling, I can't do more!' I do 95% her stuff, 95% of the house stuff. I also think I may be perimenopausal which doesn't help, though its hard to know with everything else going on and with suspecting he is depressed at the moment I am equal part wanting to support him and annoyed at him. I hope that doesn't sound too bad of me.
I just wondered if anyone else has been in a similar position or have any other tips of how I can help myself and AD in this situation and a bit of a hand hold really. Will it get better or is this always going to be their relationship.

Poor you, that sounds really tough.
My suggestions would be:

If DH really might be depressed he needs to see the GP.

Does DH want to improve things? Assuming he does then:
Perhaps a therapeutic parenting course for him
Make sure he gets 1-1 time with you out of the way, even if it means you go out and sit in the car for 2hours in an evening. He needs to fight through the feeling he is less capable and learn for himself.

We alternated bedtimes from day 1 (we adopted 2 so one night I did youngest and DH eldest, and the next night the other way around. Little one was 2.5 and I swear for about 18months she would cry and cling to me when it was DH's turn but was usually giggling by the time they were half way up the stairs).

Maybe make Saturday morning (or whenever) DH-AD time for 2-3 hours. Either he takes her out or you go out. But electronics is not an option, it has to be an interaction.

I could have written this post, word for word. I don't feel I have the answers but I didn't want to move past your message without commenting. I just wanted to say I hear you and all you accomplish, mostly alone, is exceptional.

None of what you wrote or think sounds bad of you. All of your feelings are valid and justified. The biggest questions to ask are, does he acknowledge the need for change, does he want to change and is he able to change?

Perhaps with some GP support or adoption agency support he can answer these questions.

Recently my DH moved on from our family. This would absolutely not have been my choice. I mention this only because his choice did give me the headspace to realise how much energy was given over to looking after him as well as our two LOs. Looking after him never bothered me but recently a good friend asked me the question, "Who looked after you?"
It's a good thought to reflect on. You deserve support and the huge effort of raising LOs, maintaining a home and nurturing a relationship, is a shared responsibility.
I hope this is an ok response to such an emotional and sensative topic. I mean to share my point of view as gently and respectfully as possible. x

I also am keen to reply, have been waiting for the kids to sleep so I can do my best to articulate it all -but still not sure how to - will try -
Its really really hard, on both of you. I think in my experience the Dads find it harder to adjust to life with a child. When my first came my DH didnt get it at all, and thought life would be the same and was happy to go on holiday without us etc etc, things I couldnt comprehend, but by number 3 hes settled well into it and weve settled into our routine - hes hopeless overnight or in the early morning so I do that, and Im at my tiredness at bedtime so he does the fun & stories then.
I wonder if things that could help you guys could be -
making sure you have time for yourselves, set it into your routine, routine it all out on your schedule so everyone knows when that is, makes it sooo much easier for us.
making sure you have time set aside together, doing adult thing together, may be much easier for this when your DD starts school, doing a pub lunch together or something, or date night takeway when DD is in bed is possible etc, weve found a fab pub with a soft play in it that works so maybe something like that - bringing child fun and adult fun together?
This is also important to remember - as DD gets older the things they can do together they both enjoy will increase - my DH loves gaming with DS and reading Harry potter with DD, our youngest DD is too little for that stuff yet but easier for us as weve seen how things will go in the future - find a common ground that they will both love - football? gaming? swimming? running? what does he like? what did he like before kids? theres often a feeling of loss of identity that all parents get (not just adopting) and finding a way back to yourself that includes the new reality of kids is soooo helpful, even eating fish and chips on the beach, anything that spans both generations of what we find fun?
I think having a routine really helps, espcially if you are doing so much of the parenting and the housework, putting it out in a schedule to give all the needs met time really helps as then everyone knows when their needs are met and when they are expected to do fun/the jobs etc. If you can afford it get a cleaner or whatever you need to cut down the non essential stuff to focus on the family, if it feels a crisis time cut back on all non essentials like cleaning & go back to coccooning time?
You will get more time when DD is in school, and as they get older their interests are more fun. Star wars comes about age 5/6 for example, i know that was a great fun time for my DH, the kids start getting interested in cool stuff and you can guide them together?
But also DH does need to work with you on the parenting, there will be some differences on style (im the nagger but gentle, DH is fun but strict when hes strict for example, the kids see that) but basic stuff needs to be on the same page. I wonder if spending time with other families may help? I dont know, but I do know what chatting about this stuff while relaxed and at the pub while kids play in soft play is a more productive way of doing it than by having it out with him while tensions are high.
So, id say, start slow, a plan in your head and a routine on paper, make some changes, make some time for yourselves,dont even have to make it a thing, just say ooo i really want to watch this ... and the cinema, or ooo .... said theyd babysit so we can go out, or .... find this pub with a soft play lets try it, etc etc, anything, even movie time after bed time chaos, and reconnect and slowly slowly things may improve.
I guess im saying, this will get better, its hard now but can improve, baby steps to improve things, time will make more of a link between kids and adult fun.
Who knows, maybe hel be great at the teenage years? I do think some Dads find the little kids so boring. maybe have him watch Bluey on cebebbies(accidently of course while you all relax one time??) for some great Dad stuff.
I think too if you suspect hes depressed but not keen for GP help, get him out excercising? would that help? family swimming is such a good bonder, a place with water slides, you maybe are 'too scared' to go on and and needs a daddy daughter splash? or get him into running with DD, she may love it?or whatever his sport may be?
Most importantly your doing fab. 4s are really hard.

I had PAD after DD2. It took me a long time to recover and properly bond with her.

After 2 years he needs to be on antidepressants to help him come out of it.
He needs to be doing the caring stuff with her and fake it 'til he makes it.

Depression is an incredibly selfish disease. Don't allow him to opt out of family life or mollycoddle him- that will not help him and you will get resentful. Doing things is the only long term solution but it's incredibly hard to drag yourself to perform even basic tasks when it's really bad.

Thank you so much all of you for your replies. Something in what each of you has said resonates for sure. I appreciate and respect all your views and it has really helped me. I feel supported and understood which helps. I get what you mean about depression being selfish really and I need to make sure I don't get lost amongst all of this.
We had some routines near the start but this has filtered out. He definitely needs to be there more and fake it more effectively. I will need to push and nudge more. You have all given some good points that I can try. I also need to be more assertive with it and go out and have some me time, whilst also forcing them having more time together.

I know I'll keep looking back over your comments too for other ideas and the support shown and a good push for me to get things going in the right direction more. AD and I both deserve that. And I absolutely need to push to do things together so resentment doesn't build.
He is doing some exercise now and isn't completely against seeing GP or counsellor, he does want this to improve. He has also booked some time off work for himself. So we shall see in a few weeks I think and then will take it from there.
Thank you

So it's been a few weeks and I thought d update. I'm really struggling now to be honest. She starts school in September and we did our first school type thing Friday and she has imploded every day since then with epic screaming, noises and throwing - whatever she can that really. I get it, she's scared and I have talked it through with her that we'll be going lots of times together first.
I guess I'm not feeling very resilient at the moment. I wonder if she needs therapy or something with this big a reaction around school (I think its stemming from there), DH basically thinks she needs more discipline. That when she's not behaving the way we want we put her in her room. I questioned that as she has separation anxiety and a fear of being left or alone. He said then it will be more effective. Am I being unreasonable here? I am trying to parent therapeutically, he is more old school. And I wonder if that and how he's not coping is pushing us apart completely. He's not engaged, he looked up a therapist for him but not sure as wants to save money for something!!
I try to talk to him but it usually ends in an argument, it ends up with him saying he just wanting a nice evening and him criticising and saying she needs more discipline. I honestly am not sure where to go from here. I am also left starting to wonder more if it is me with the problem.
Firstly I need a cry, a fun day with my AD and find a way to help her (and therefore me too!!) through these epic screaming fits she's having. Nothing that usually works is working here.
I needed a vent, sorry. I just feel pretty alone and over whelmed right now. If you've got this far thanks for reading my vent.

Im sorry to hear its so bad. Im struggling too at the moment, I totally get what you say about worrying all round whether you are doing it right. I do know that leaving her alone in her room isnt the right thing. That will just send her into fight/flight mode extreme. Instead of time out for discipline, try time in? It is removing from the situation, holding her with you until shes calmed down and then gently talking of a second chance etc, try it again, what can we do to make things right etc, but only once shes calmed down from flight flight mode with you. If cant be hold just to sit with her rather than leaving her alone. Im not succeeding yet as our dd sure knows how to wind me up but I know this is how I should respond - if not too tired, fed up with it being relentless and on constant repeat etc. Taking the emotion out of it and the attention. I really dont know, its so so hard. I have asked for ASF funding for therapy for our dd - although told there is a 3 month waiting list to be assessed but may be worth starting the process so you can get therapy, I really think therapy should be a given for what our kids have gone through, not having to wait months for an assessment for it!
I also do think a vent really helps, best help for me has been venting to people who get it, it just really helps sometimes to talk it all out, and to hear that others are going through exactly the same stuff. Do you have friends you can go out with? Are you getting any more selfcare time now? I think thats what I need most of the time, just to refuel myself so have more to give as its just nonstop and exhasuting.
Re screaming ive not much help, it sounds really really hard, im sorry. I guess hold her and hold her if she lets you? Ive got loop ear things to help my ears from the overwelm.
Re school, I can only think maybe take her back a level, give it abit more time, and then come to it again slowly, no pressure and totally relaxed like its no big deal, everyone does it. have it from other sources, rather than you mention school have the topsy and tim episodes of starting school etc, make it a desirable thing if you see what I mean? sticker books, topsy & tim/ biff & chip start school kind of books, and when you do start start slow, make sure the teachers are aware and supportive etc. My older DD started on half days and my eldest DS missed first year altogether (although that wasnt for the best I think!).
I hope things improve soon. I do think you should call in your support from your LA/VA and anywhere else you can. Take it easy on yourself, this is a really really hard job.

Another poster here to listen. I’ve been there (and still am!) and it’s not easy.

do you work? Can you take some leave? Can you have some time while little one is at pre school? I think you sound exhausted and need to recharge. Do you claim dla? It might be useful
to reduce working hours.

I think the conflict with parenting is a hard one. We all parent slightly differently but you sound poles apart. does your daughter behave the same way with your husband? does he have her on his own a lot? If he sends her to the room, how does she behave? More importantly, how does your husband cope with the challenging behaviour?

is It possible to explore therapeutic parenting sessions or couples therapy together? I know that’s hard to fit in but sounds like you could benefit.

with school, can you defer a year? If not, forget transitions. Sometimes talking about school too early increases the anxiety because they don’t know what to expect; everyone talking about it makes it a big thing and it’s not going to happen for months yet so it becomes so overwhelming. Can you arrange more visits the week before? It might ge the case that day one is the start of the transition and shorter days are the way to go.

lots of rupture and repair is needed. If you have had a bad day, don’t forget to have some good quality time to build relationships and give her a chance to repair it. It doesn’t have to ge much but knowing she hasn’t destroyed your relationship is so important.

you’ve got so much going on. You are exhausted. Take time for you and you did great for recognising it and reaching out (something that took me years to learn).

Absolutely don't just put her in her room! She needs you and to feel secure.

re School. Has she done anything up to know where you leave her, e.g. nursery or swimming lessons? Is she terrified of being left? Or something else? Crowds?

With little ones sometimes the long build up can make it seem bigger than it is.

Can you play 'schools' with her teddies?

First things first, your husband needs to get treatment for his depression - medication and/or therapy. He’s going to struggle until he does and it’s not something that will easily resolve by itself. With the right treatment he’ll have more capacity for self reflection and more emotional capacity for you and his daughter.

In terms of school, what time does your daughter spend away from you and away from home just now? Has she been in nursery/pre-school and how does she cope there?

It’s quite early for transitions given she won’t start until September - she’s too little to make the connection between what you’re doing now (ie school visits etc) and what will happen 3 months from now. If you think about it one of the reasons behaviour management has to be immediate at this stage is because children so young don’t have the cognitive ability to link being naughty now with no treat later (for example). She may find the thought absolutely terrifying because it’s so far in the future and she can’t make those links.

I’d step back from doing formal school transition stuff just now. Stories about children going to school can help, I’d also look at social stories (have a google there are some good instructions for creating a social story using photos of your child) - they are simple picture stories explaining every day type events. Also speak to the school, get a sense of their understanding of developmental trauma and what they can put in place to support your daughter. Gentler transition, shorter days, deferring, practical support in class can all help. Would they let her visit with you just to look around, can she meet her class teacher and get to know them a bit before she starts school? Take your daughter for walks past the school so it becomes a familiar place for her but keep it all very low key.

If she’s screaming she’s telling you she’s distressed so putting her in her room will make things worse, you know this. I’d comfort as far as possible, distract with another activity - something sensory so she can self sooth with you there to help with co-regulation. Maybe look at safe throwing, eg soft things in a safe place - being upset/scared comes with a lot of energy to discharge so throwing, jumping, running etc may be just what she needs (have you never felt so angry you jumped up and down?). When she’s calm, talk with her about what happened help her to find language for how she was feeling - there are some good resources available to help children develop emotional literacy I can point you to if that might help.

The problem with your husband’s approach is that he’s treating this as a behavioural issue when it’s a developmental one. He may think he’s failing as a parent if his child doesn’t behave “well” which may be driving his heavy handed approach so go gently with him but I’d be very clear that putting my child in a room when she’s distressed is an absolute no.

What time do you have for yourself?

Thanks all.
Sorry to hear you're struggling too @tonyhawks23 good to know I'm not alone trying to figure it all out.
Good to know you guys agree about not leaving he rin her room. that totally doesn't feel right to me either.
I have tried to drip feed bits about school and tried not to be too obvious. Thought there was chance to meet some kids going and went along to library thing but she was quizzed by well meaning lady about what school and what colour uniform and she got in a tizzy. It wasn't what I was expecting but still. Some nice ideas about other ways to drip in thank you.
She had another meltdown this morning. I just sat and gave no interaction at all till she'd calmed down and she calmed down more quickly, then we had a hug and a wonder. Any interactions she escalates. Maybe just being there and being calm is enough.
@121Sarah121 I do work part time but have no flexibility when to take time off. She's at pre school when I'm at work and she finds that tiring enough. Grandparents help at times though they're not close in distance and can be shorter bursts as she is full of energy but I need to utilise them more for sure.
She isn't 1:1 with DH very much at all to be honest. He's admitted to opting out at times as says he's not coping. A couple of times when I was dealing with her having a strop he has swept in and joined in and echoed me. I said about letting me finish dealing with it if she's started it with me, that his support is good but it can change dynamic as she then strops some more if feels pressured and he expects her to do something straight away. It also feels a bit undermining when he sweeps in. He's taken that to the level of I will deal with everything then which is not what I meant at all. She is quite needy with him. I feel cos she's not quite sure how he'll react and also because she's craving some him time too. She does also try to push buttons a but. But again testing boundaries and reactions, she's 4 and likes her own way.
I absolutely agree we need something, we are on different pages. He expects her to behave the same with him as me but without the same time and effort I've put in.
I don't want to defer school as in many ways she is ready for school and out grown nursery. It's just the change aspect that is stressing her but we'll play it even more cool and drip feed.
Me and her always repair. We hug it better after and have a little wonder and talk about it. AD and I have a good bond I feel.
I feel unsure about approaching LA though I think therapy would be useful. When we've talked about theraplay for her before they said they would do it themselves. A - nope, she smells social workers a mile off and stress her out. B - it would just be better externally, it feels judgey with social workers though they're not trying to be I know.
She does nursery without me but other things mostly with me. She does worry about me not being there, but just needs a bit of time to settle and trust other places and people. That's grown as DH has backed off a bit more I think.
Thanks all, I really appreciate it. And after a good cry, watching TV and a good sleep I feel more positive this morning. Plus booked grandparent in for some chill time.

Thanks @Jellycatspyjamas
Absolutely DH needs therapy/ anti depressants or something. It's getting him to do it is the sticking point at the mo.
She copes well with nursery, finds it hard when I do the drop off to separate. I will definitely do more with liasing with school for more times in and maybe staggered start in September and whatever we can. The library event was a definite mistake, I didn't realise they'd be so formal about it. I just thought meeting other childrenher age in a familiar setting with would be good, but yes too much when she doesn't understand the concept of it all.
You've given loads of great points thank you. I have been doing different things about emotions but would definitely appreciate any other resources to keep building on this.
Time for me is very little. I spend a lot of my evenings then doing work. This will ease and is getting easier but I know not enough for sure.

A - nope, she smells social workers a mile off and stress her out. B - it would just be better externally, it feels judgey with social workers though they're not trying to be I know.

They will have offered to do it because they can put it in place quickly. I understand about her smelling social workers a mile off (mine can too) but there are social workers and there are social workers. In my team this would most likely be given to a social work student, which is a good thing because they are very close to current theory and practice, will research and study the whole process and will have a lot of time to give to it.

Therapists can be just as judgy tbh, and finding one qualified specifically in adoption isn’t easy - in England therapists must be authorised by Ofsted to work with adoption and that’s a tricky process to get through. Therapists can be just a guilty of doing a two day course and thinking they know what they’re doing so please don’t assume they’ll be better equipped necessarily.

I guess what I’m saying is given the choice between waiting to find an authorised therapist and having the therapy in place quickly I’d go for the local authority.

I say this as a registered social worker and qualified therapist.

Maybe just being there and being calm is enough.

It may well be, you know yourself sometimes when you’re upset you don’t want to be touched so she may find physical interaction too much. Think of it like a tuning fork, she’s dysregulated and “vibrating”, you being near her calm and steady gives her something solid to vibrate off of and slowly the vibrations lessen. She learns to be calm by you being a calm presence and then she can tolerate (and needs) comfort. You’re doing a great job with her.

Last one from me just now. Some resources that are great for young children include The Big Feelings Pineapple, basically a Mr Potato Head type toy but with lots of expressive mouths, eyebrows etc to make links between how we feel inside and how we express that outside. It’s two sided so you can build a happy and sad face at the same time.

There’s also a snap game with emotions cards called HappySnap which is good fun without being obviously therapeutic.

Teytoy also do soft throwing bean bags with different faces (emotions) on them that might be helpful if your daughter likes throwing things.

They’re all available on Amazon so easy to get hold of.

To add to jellycatspyjamas suggestions, CBeebies has a series called time for school they seem to show it every autumn- you can find it on YouTube. There's also a section on their website dedicated to it with clips from various tipsy and Tim episodes linked.

Oh yes time for school on cebebbies is lovely,if play that really close to school time as a fun thing for sure.and I got a velcro emotions board,like a visual board from Amazon was good.also got my eldest a bracelet from Amazon that shows how she's feeling,if she wants interaction or not.
That's a really good point about therapy being more social workers coming and that not being helpful,I'd not thought about that side of things. I'm looking into equine therapy as think that would suit us so may try that as in thinking quite different to social worker visits/assessment.
Ach it's a hard old business full of worry!good luck and glad you feel about better!

DD had equine assisted therapy for a year during the pandemic. She was 15/16. It was counselling in a field of horses. She found it beneficial, but she loves animals. occasionally they groomed the horses (if it was raining). It wasn't cheap though. I'm sure other types of equine therapies are available.

Could you and your husband do 10 minutes of "special time" with her every day (one day you, one day him)? https://bristolchildparentsupport.co.uk/special-play-time-how-15-minutes-a-day-may-ease-lockdown/ I know lots of families who have done it and it is very helpful. Since it is very short and child-lead, your husband might be able to engage in it. Children all love it, once they understand the concept. If he feels insecure about playing with her, Margot Sunderland's "Best Relationship with Your Child - The First Five Years" DVD might be helpful.

Could you go to the school with her once or twice per week and just sit in the street in front with an ice-cream or a sandwich? My children were very scared of going and that helped. Are there children who will be starting at the same time that you could meet one on one beforehand, so she knows she won't be alone and you could go in together on the first day?

Have you got Sarah Naish's "The A-Z of Therapeutic Parenting"? It might be a useful book to dip in and out of for your husband. It won't take much time or energy and explains difficult behaviours very well.